From Satsang at Sediba Retreat, South Africa, September 2013
Q: Each of us will attain liberation one day, nobody will not attain it. It is a fundamental truth about Christianity, at this cross section, somebody will go to Heaven and somebody will go to Hell.
A: In principle, everybody will have salvation. Everybody has to go. It’s like the supreme Father has to go, so when the show is over, “Come back!” So all the good and bad will come back, merge and finish. That’s it. Once it’s dissolved, there is no duality.
Q: The cycle will not continue after it?
A: Cycle can continue, it depends on the maintenance of duality. It goes on for trillions of years. However, if we consider it from our limited duration, e.g. 80 years, we will not understand the size of that activity. Now consider this in an objective way. Wherever there is brightness, there is the possibility of shade as well, darkness. When light is absent, there is darkness. When light comes, darkness disappears. So there is distinct duality on the plane, the light and the shade.
What maintains duality
In that context, shade means ignorance or non-understanding, or tamas, inertia. Brightness and white light is full understanding, consciousness, purity, beauty. If you look at the path of beauty, purity, bright light, you can say that every being will merge sooner or later. Temporary detours do happen, but finally they will merge. In the case of shade, shade is dependent on light for its existence, but at the same time, it also has its relevance. I’m just throwing thoughts to consider. Shade has its validity. Shade says, “This area, this is the reality.” You cannot see, you have to believe. “You are not as great as you think, you are only this.” So you automatically have a conflict there. This conflict happens in everyone’s mind. This light-and-shade show goes on in everybody’s mind! Nobody is immune to it. That is also the reason why we doubt ourselves – because we listen to the shade and we feel, “Maybe that is right, I must consider that.” But if you consider light, I’d say, “No, I am the absolute brightness, I’m fine. I’m moving on.” Shades will happen, like the saying, “If you start throwing stones at every dog that barks at you, you will never reach your destination.” Ha, ha. It is similar. We have to contain this sound, but often we can’t. Somebody will say something. It could be a human being, a thought, a message, an email, facebook, whatever, but it provokes an action or reaction from us, within us. And that delays us. It makes us take a detour. This is one side.
So on one side, liberation, yes, it is guaranteed for all, no problem.
Second, there are negative entities, the entities who chose to stay in the negative, and thus duality is maintained. Just like us, just like the white, negative entities are all the same. Their interest is sadistic pleasure, more or less. Like, you bought a beautiful car, one boy was jealous, he picked up a stone and threw it at the car. His job is done. He is happy. He manifested his jealousy in a ‘beautiful’ way, “ha, ha, he is out of the game”. You have to repair the car, right? This is the point I am making. It’s easy to throw a stone, but to rectify the whole thing, takes time, and that’s agony. You have to spend money, you have to spend time… all these things will happen.
If everything is good, you will never understand what good is. If there is no villain in a fiction film, you will never know who the hero is. Who will James Bond fight with? 🙂 You need to have an opponent. The opponent is one that binds you, controls you, enslaves you, makes you do things which you probably never wanted to do, and makes you miserable. That aspect is there. Many people go through that process. How do you get there? It’s primarily because you do not know where you are going. There is confusion in your existence. You do not know the journey. You do not know what you are here for and also you think that this is what you are here for.
Following the crowd
The third thing is the attitude of “I do not want to think, let somebody else think for me.” So you follow the herd. If one cow goes, every cow will go. That aspect, for e.g. “My neighbour is attending this programme, or this particular thing, so let me go as well. She must be right. I trust her, so what she does must be right.” We never know. We have to use our intellect, our understanding, our awareness. Take your time to choose your guru. It is your right to take the time. But once you are clear and convinced, follow till the end of the road. Otherwise you will be neither here nor there, anywhere. So how do beings who like to control and own operate? They capture souls who are weak and vulnerable. First of all, understand clearly that every soul has the same power. There is no weaker or stronger soul. Clear that notion away. However, the baggage has various flavours. This is the point I am making. The soul which is operating with the baggage is weaker and can be controlled. Like a soul which is has the baggage of ignorance can be conquered and controlled. So these are the beings who control such people. Not just human beings, any beings. That is why if you look at the weaker, the victimised, mostly such souls are operating. Why aren’t they able to get rid of the victim cycle? It’s because they are put back by these master entities, who captured the souls and put them into the bodies of cyclical victims. This is what we are talking about in the dairy industry, animals in captivity, tortured animals. When these souls get out of the body, they get caught again and are put back. They control the operation. This is not on a karmic level. Ok, even if it is a karmic birth, it is controlled by other entities who are conquering nature. So it is even more important to be associated with the powerful, with the white side, and have nothing to do with the dark. So this is the third aspect.
Fourth, in human beings doubts are put in. If a person is climbing up well in the path of spirituality, suddenly a few doubts come in. Immediately the fall happens. It is usually said, partially as a joke, that whatever you hear from the left ear is from the right side. Whatever you hear from the right ear is from the left side. If you are hearing oriented maybe it is a good thing to consider. But you can see this in life a lot. We will be progressing well over a period of time, then suddenly – we drop. Even people who have had great experiences fall. It is often not their fault, however they did buy into this idea, they bought into the idea of the negative. They started feeling, “Oh, that could be true.” This is exactly the point.
The astral planes
Q: What is happening on the astral plane?
A: Don’t look at dimensions at the astral level. Because that is more or less connected to our existing dimension. See, there are business lounges, economy lounges, first class lounges, etc. at the airport. On the astral level it is almost the same. Let us not distort our thought process. The point is that you get a general understanding. Based on your level of consciousness, you get that kind of master. Like if a person speaks Italian, and a French master comes, he will not understand him. Think in practical terms. When you go up, from this body, you are at a particular level of evolution, and a corresponding master will come. You can call this a different level of astral plane. If the astral plane is a trade center with a hundred stories, you reach different locations 🙂 But in the whole perspective, in the whole structure, there is no difference. The purpose is the same. The purpose is actually recycling. What you are catered into depends on what your merit is. And what you are connected to at the time of death is also very important. If you are deeply connected to my consciousness, you go back to my consciousness. That is what Krishna says, “You can merge with any consciousness, but it is mine anyway.” Krishna is talking here about Parabrahma, the supreme Father, within which the astral plane also exists. Every plane exists within him. Levels and layers are there. Why I am not giving too many details is because intellect is too strong in all of us. We would start churning all that now. But our aim is not analytical or academic ideas. Our aim is to liberate, right? Just a basic understanding is good enough, no more, because there is no written exam tomorrow 🙂 What we do though is we collect these, and we start going through the Internet, and we start adding more. This is human nature. That is why I am giving only a basic understanding. This is the inner field. There are many lokas, or worlds, which are also similar and where we can exist like here. Like if the fire that we had in the morning had been more powerful, you would have run away, right? Our body, our vulnerability could not handle it. In that context, there are other lokas where there are different levels of existence. And that is directly reflected on those beings, what their capacity is, what they can do. But our capacity is limited because we are made out of elements. If you say, “Let me meditate under water,” you will have to come up after one or two minutes, breathe and go back again. Because of our limitation, we need oxygen. We cannot have too much fire, and too much air is also not possible. We’d be bloated.
Q: And too much knowledge is also not really valuable?
A: Yes. It is good to know, but then it is only catering to the intellect. And the intellect will churn out more, “I want to know more about that.” It is just wasting time. The intellect is just taking it easy, taking time. It says, “I wanted that information. I want to know more.” But what for?
Stay connected, the rest is guru’s job
Q: Sometimes when you fall, your awareness is not enough to pull you back and your will is not enough. What else can you do?
A: In our path, the path of Shiva, it’s usually the guru’s job. When you fall, guru holds you. What happens is you are allowed to experience, and at the same time, you are allowed to come back. The door is always swinging open in our path. Datta tradition is like that. Nobody will judge you. Nobody will criticise you. Everybody is accepted as they are, because your free will is intact. And you wanted to experience something else, you even wanted to experience the fall. This is allowed so that you know what it feels like to fall. Then again you are lifted back, you are embraced. Guru needs nothing in our path. Guru delivers everything. It’s not in teaching. It’s in activity that everything is achieved. Figuratively said, it is like a monkey’s child. The monkey’s child does not have the power to climb the tree. It’s small. But it clings to the mother, and mother climbs the tree, so it reaches the highest branch. So you are lifted. The path itself lifts you. And the corresponding gurus will come and hold you. Sometimes, if you did not understand the fall, you may not understand the elevation. That is also part of our path. You may fall, but then the fall is not permanent. But if you operate on the ego plane, then it is more of a permanent nature. Again, it is not absolutely permanent, but still in repetitive activities. Especially when you have a feeling, “I am doing it, so I am achieving.” Then it is even more difficult to get up after the fall. But to slip up and down is normal, as long as there is the mind. That is mind’s job. Mind keeps you up for some time, then pulls you down, then pulls you up. That goes on. So just watch it with amusement, watch the play. But our tradition has always said, “Stay with the guru.” Guru or path, let’s say, if you do not like to have a physical guru. It doesn’t matter. Or if the Guru has left the body, it is also ok. They are equally powerful. Even if they have left the body, their consciousness stays. They are here, now. If you connect to Shirdi Sai Baba, Sathya Sai Baba, Akkalkot Swami, Jesus, any guru whom you are able to connect with, that is enough. Because that consciousness is available to you all the time, just like the sun is available to all beings. Your job is to stay connected with all your tenacity and conviction. The rest is guru’s job. 80% is guru’s job. Even now during the retreat, too, this is how we work. That is our way of operation. That is also the beauty of the path. The beauty is not in the activity, it’s in beingness. That is also the difference of this path. The beingness is well established with every activity. Activity is there, but it is minimal. It is not in the activity that you grow. Activity is used to occupy the mind only. Activity occupies the mind, but it cannot guarantee your progress.
Consciousness is one
Q: Does the guru have to be in the body to physically transfer that special current?
A: No, that is exactly the point I made. In our path of Shiva, guru happens when you need him. When in the classroom, you never invited a teacher to come and teach you. They walked in and they started teaching you. And that was the right teacher to take you to the next level.
Q: We have had many lifetimes. We may have even met Shirdi Sai Baba, or other masters in other lifetimes, but here in this lifetime we haven’t actually physically met them. Are we still connected from other lifetimes?
A: There are two questions in this. The first question is whether you are connected from other lifetimes. Definitely. First, otherwise you wouldn’t have this information today. Second, you did not meet Sai Baba or Jesus, these are the bodies who existed in those times. Then how will you meet them in this time!? Consciousness is still there, but you are looking at the physical form. I do not guarantee that this physical form will exist. I am here today. Ten years later, there is no guarantee. So twenty years later, if somebody says, “I have never met Mohanji in this lifetime,” that is not the proper question at all because how do you expect to have longevity in the physical body? Consciousness-wise they will meet me all the time. Consciousness-wise you can always stay connected to Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, because consciousness never goes. It’s one consciousness. It can operate through many bodies. Even if Krishna came back today, he would not come with a peacock feather and a flute and walk along the street. This would be like a comedy show! He would probably come as a doctor, an engineer or a computer expert, or maybe Bill Gates, ha, ha. Just joking. This is my point. An avatar can happen, consciousness can take any number of incarnations, but it may not be in the same form and it isn’t valid in the same form either. However, unfortunately we are stuck with images. We want to see that in this context. That’s where the problem lies. Then we suffer. Because that’s not possible. The form is taken only for a duration and a purpose. After that the form is shed. How do you bring the form back again? Technically yes, Babaji has lived for thousands of years. That is technically possible. Even if your intent is very strong, Krishna can happen, but not as a birth and death, i.e. taking birth, living and dying. He can appear and disappear because this is not a big deal.
When you are operating in the plane of energy, you can conglomerate matter at any point in time through centuries, no problem. My point is that if Krishna came back, he would take another body, another name, another identity. But Krishna’s consciousness is available.
Q: Even Babaji or Hanumanji will not appear in the same form?
A: There are many entities of that nature. Babaji is one of the most powerful and interacting. Babaji is actually guiding a lot of people, and doing a lot of things. Even now, I don’t think he always comes in one form. At that level of operation, when you are completely operating on the energy form, the form has no validity. He will probably choose a form that you will understand, so that you know that Babaji came. Otherwise there is no problem. Babaji could come as a cat or a dog, or a bird, too. The idea is to convey a message or do a thing.
Coming back to your question, reincarnation may not be in the same form or the same flavour. He could be of a different flavour. Consciousness is one. Once you merge with one consciousness, all the consciousnesses are the same. We have given various names to various bodies, like we have today. And we are trying to reproduce that body or the name, to clone in another life time. That is not possible. But the consciousness is coming back now and again, it is possible.