Speaker: Thank you so much Mohanji for being here with us. I’m so excited that I have a big smile, thank you again for being with us.
Mohanji: My pleasure, I am happy.
Connection with a spiritual family
Speaker: People are really very excited about being with you again. I tell them to connect to your heart, to connect to your eyes and then just to open themselves to your energy. Okay, so can we start with the questions?
Mohanji: I’m ready.
Speaker: Mohanji, as you know, Peru is one of the countries that is most hit in the world with the Covid-19 virus. We are still in a very strict lockdown with a curfew, and there are a lot of people who asked me questions about death because they have relatives, they have parents who died of Covid-19, and they have people around them who are suffering from it.
Actually, there were times when this country was number one in the world for the number of people dying on a day. Apparently, a lot of people have issues with the immune system, especially people from the jungle or from the mountains. The question is when people are dying from this or diseases like cancer, what can we say to the relatives, how can we ease their pain, especially when they are not spiritually oriented, or when they don’t have a deep connection with God?
Mohanji: I fully understand this. This situation is all over the world now. What makes or what brings pain is our connection to our parents, to our relatives, or other people? We feel a deep connection. We feel a kind of real bonding, and when they are not there, we feel devastated. This is irreplaceable. You cannot change it.
Let us take a scenario. If we have somebody unwell in our house, what will that person see? What they are suffering or what they are going through, you cannot change, because it’s already happening. But what would that person need from us, usually? They would need understanding, love, empathy, or companionship and support; these four things.
Expressing fear and sympathy may not work, because that will aggravate the situation. Expressing indifference also will not work, meaning ‘I don’t care’ that will not work. Just from your heart if you say and act accordingly, “I am with you, I love you, let’s fight it together” that will bring more power and energy to that person to fight; basically, survival is connected to a decision; to win the war.
Sometimes in such occasions, if you say God is helping you, etc., it may not work because the question they will ask is, then why did God give this to me first of all? So, let’s not talk about God too much. Let’s talk about us, as human beings, what we can do. We can make a big difference in society, and in people’s lives, with our attitude.
I get many messages from people not because they connect to me spiritually; because they say Mohanji, you are somebody whom we can trust. You are there like a rock, solid; you never change your mind. So, we love to see you; we love to connect with you because you are stable. Our stability is a very, very good gift we can give to our relationship, any relationship. Stability has a lot of value when everything else in the world is unstable. Many things in life now, in the world now we have no control, but we can choose to have an attitude of stability.
Moreover, in situations like Covid-19, most people you see are depressed; they’re not happy. If you meet ten people, and nine people are depressed, automatically you will feel depressed; because most of the energy exchange happening is taking you to a state of depression. This is to be very clearly understood – with whom you are interacting. It is important for you to connect to something stable, strong; you should make such friendships or connection to a person who’s very stable and strong; because you need somebody to hold on to so that you can give strength to other people.
This cannot be a picture on the wall; it should be a connection to a live person. I am not talking about God as such, but you need a person who is stable, so you can also be stable by connecting to that person; because this is important in today’s time. This is why I have been really working on connecting people globally as Mohanji family so that people can help each other to stabilise themselves. This has worked very well. So many of our people, whom Mirella you know already, are very stable despite things around not being stable. Bring a community together, not for activity; but for love.
The activity makes them come together easily, but the basis should be love. It is just simply staying together; just for the sake of love – togetherness and family. We all have our family; we were born in a particular family, and when we probably get married, it becomes a different family. In our life, different aspects of the family happen. But when you look back, you may see discontinuity many times and in many cases, but it is a family, which is connected unconditionally; it will never change; it’s always the same.
A spiritual family is very, very important. That is your immunity, and it’s your immunity in calamity. Here, the love is not conditional; if you are giving me something, I love you; it’s not like that, its love is unconditional. Whatever you are, whoever you are, it’s love that united us. And love will maintain us; love is our oxygen. Whatever you are, whoever you are, wherever you are from, whether you are rich or poor, whether you are educated or not educated, nothing matters. Just love, love brings everybody together.
During this time, we should know how to behave, because people will look at us. You are a spiritual person, and how will you be interacting with the world. Very simple – stability. Spirituality should be stability. When people look at you, and they see you being extremely stable; they may ask you, how can you be so stable, when everything is in calamities. That time you can say, “I have a family; that family is stable. I’m stable. This family needs nothing from me.” This is very important to understand, “My family needs nothing from me; I am everything to my family; my family is everything to me.” To have that connection, what do you need? Very simple, yesterday, today, tomorrow, day after, you should be connected the same way.
It’s very simple because all you need is consistency. Don’t keep changing your mind. Then you will be nowhere. In a time of calamity, stability and consistency have a lot of value. That tells you who you are and what you are. This is not to gain anything from anywhere. It is just to be immune to all the problems and calamities of the world.
And you should have deep conviction and faith. Conviction in what you believe in. You should believe in something, and you should have a firm conviction in what you believe, and you should have faith in that. What is the easiest and the most important thing in your life that you must believe in or you must have consistent conviction and faith in?
Maria: We have to trust in ourselves; some people say unconditional love; some people say love; some people say, love and family.
Mohanji: Good! Thank you for participating. The most authentic, the most original and the most reliable person you will ever find in your life is you. So, you should believe in yourself. You should have faith in yourself. You should have a deep conviction in yourself. This is very, very important. What is your investment in the family? Yourself, as you are.
What is your investment in society? In all your relationships, take anything. What is your investment? It’s you. Not something that you have, because that’s temporary; permanent investment is only you. So this is very simple, right? Not complicated spirituality, we don’t need complicated spirituality; it’s too much of noise. We need to know what the truth is. The truth is only you, only one thing; you.
When you were born, you realise there is a world around you, and when you die, the world is still around you, but you do not know there is a world. When you wake up in the morning, you know there is a world around you, and when you sleep, where is that world? So it’s all about you and your life. This is the secret. The secret is to find you and accept you and love you; self-acceptance, self-love, self-respect and then it goes into society. This is the only thing you can give to society.
What can I give you? Only myself. I cannot give another person; I cannot give any other thing which you may accept or reject. Society has only two faces, either they accept, or they reject. This is how the world works. So, what best can I give you is myself. When you see yourself in me, you will accept me. When you see me as a different person, you may reject me, but if you see yourself in me, then you may accept me.
This is very important; this is the time to make the real family. The Covid situation has given you clarity. This is the real time to make a real family, stable family, together. It does not matter where you are living, but we can all be connected in energy; energetic connection. So there is something positive during Corona time.
Speaker: Just reading some of the comments… People who have never seen you, they say that they feel so much joy and happiness in their hearts.
Mohanji: It’s not seeing, we are connected, energy-wise we are related, and some people who are sensitive will feel it right away; immediately.
Spirituality and selfless service
Speaker:Mohanji, I would like if you could tell what is the relationship between spirituality and selfless service? Because there are a lot of people that just like sit and meditate, and that’s it. Then they tell me, but I’m meditating, and nothing is happening, what would you tell them?
Mohanji: Beautiful. We all have our orientation. We have a particular nature. We like some things, and we don’t like other things. What is that connected to? What is that based on? Our orientation, our being natural – naturality. So, that tells us that we have our original state or our originality; our naturality. We are original; we are natural; so we can only interact with the world, as we are. There’s no other way.
Likewise, we like certain subjects. Some people like science, some people like arts, some people like math, some people like to draw or paint. Some people like music. This is all connected to our orientation. The same applies to spirituality. Some people are very intelligent; they look at life through their brain; they need answers. Some people are very emotional; they see the world through their heart. And some people look at the outside world in the context of, what I can do for this world; and these people like to serve the world unconditionally. All these three people are spiritual.
In Sanskrit, for the intellectual or knowledge type people, it’s called Jnana Yoga. Jnana Yogis will want answers for every question; they will never be satisfied. Now, the other set is called Bhakti Yogis; they like the path of devotion. They like to pray and to have devotion as their path. Then the other group is called Karma Yogis. Karma Yoga means they like to serve, and they have happiness because of service.
This is all purification, and everything helps purification; inner purification. Which is better? Which is not so good? Everything is good. So, what you are, that is how you will do, you will connect, nobody can change it.
PC: Google Images
Karma Yoga is selfless service, and when you do not have any desire with your activity, that means you don’t desire name, fame or money from this activity, it is called karma sanyaasa. That means renunciation; it’s like a person who has already given himself for it.
All of these are good. But, how you are, that’s the way you interact. Sometimes you are a mixture, you would like a little bit of chanting, you like to serve the society around you, and you may like to have some knowledge; so people have different mixtures. We are all different things.
This is the approximate picture. Let it be you, connect to yourself and what makes you peaceful, what makes you happy, what makes you contented, you can take that; you should follow that.
Don’t think what I’m doing is not right and what another person doing is right; it’s not so. What is good for you is good for you. This is a very simple benchmark. No comparison, no competition, because you are the truth. What you want to experience from the world is the reason for your birth.
Hanuman – The Disciple
Speaker:Alvaro, you remember Alvaro, who translated last time when we had a session; he’s organising an online yoga retreat, and he has a meeting with his team. He asked me how he can be like Hanuman?
Mohanji: Hanuman’s strength was his unshakable connection to Ram. It is not a vague idea; it is not to some invisible God. There was a man, whom Hanuman identified as an Avatar. He understood Ram is an Avatar and he dedicated his life to Ram completely; body, mind, intellect, and ego, everything to Ram.
First and foremost, we should know who we are connected to and why we are connected. Hanuman only concentrated on Ram. If you concentrate on one thing, continuously, consistently, you will become so powerful. Hanuman had full awareness. He told Ram, “I prefer to be your servant; so I can serve you. But please remember, inside, you and I are one; no separation.”
What happens today, the mind gets distracted; the mind is on many things – many people, many teachings, many books; so this concentration is not happening. That is why the result is not happening. When you concentrate on one Master, with all your heart, all your mind, body, everything connected, then you become the Master’s responsibility. Then you don’t have a responsibility, because you have already delivered yourself, which is what Hanuman did.
That kind of strength of being a disciple is missing in today’s world. It’s not easy. Because of the internet world, you see so many things, your mind is everywhere, and then the concentration is not happening, that’s why we are not progressing.
Hanuman had full clarity. This is very important for a clear disciple; full clarity. He knows this is Ram; this is an Avatar. I will not leave him, whatever happens. One point of contact is very important.
Focus on one thing! If that happens, and you are very clear, then you should avoid all doubts. Doubt is very dangerous because if you’re not sure, your mind is distracted. No doubt, no criticism, no comparison, just acceptance, this is my Master, I connect deeply.
Hanuman never asked Ram anything. He never asked Ram, “Please give me something.” He never asked, instead he served. Go ahead. You ask nothing from the Master, and you get the whole Master. When you have the whole Master, you have everything. When you ask something, it becomes too small. But Hanuman asked nothing, and he got Ram himself. Ram himself was his property. This is the strength of the relationship. When you want nothing from the other person, that relationship is so pure and innocent. Hanuman was fully aware of who Ram was. He had full clarity and awareness; clarity and surrender.
I keep always repeating, do not look at the Master as a human or a person. Look at the teachings, look at what he’s delivering, and then you will not be distracted. If you look at a Master, “Oh! He’s eating, drinking, sleeping; he’s just an ordinary man”, then we lose the track. This is a very big trap that we must understand when the Master is in the form of a person. If the Master is in the form of a person, you have to totally ignore the form and the related needs. You should look at the teachings and connect to the consciousness through the teachings; then you are stable. But if you’re looking at the person, you may be unstable. You understood this point.
Many people that time, connected to Ram as a king, as a warrior, as a husband of Sita, in various forms, various levels, people connected. But Hanuman connected to Ram as the Supreme Consciousness; this is the difference. He was not distracted by Ram eating, drinking, sleeping, talking and fighting. He was not distracted by anything. He was only connecting to him as consciousness. Just imagine, if you connect to a Master as only consciousness, you will become that. Where you park your mind, you become that.
Who is a Master? There is a Master inside all of us. Understand this very clearly. There is a Master inside all of us. The true education or true teaching is to bring that Master out. This Master is simply quiet, silent inside us. We all have a Master inside, our true Master.
In Sanskrit, it’s called Atma tattva, which means soul factor. We have a soul inside, that is the energy, which is stable and running just like electricity, which is going through all the gadgets. When the electricity goes to a washing machine, it performs as a washing machine. When the electricity goes to a refrigerator, it performs as a refrigerator. When the electricity goes to light, it behaves like light. But electricity is the same. Like that, inside us, inside all of us, we have this energy particle; energy factor. This energy factor is not visible. You cannot feel it with your gross mind. It activates our mind; it activates our senses; it activates our brain; it activates the whole body, just like electricity. But we can’t find it; we cannot see electricity, right? Just like that, we cannot find it.
So, how can you find it? How can you find the soul factor? Through silence. When you become silent; when you start accepting yourself, respecting yourself, loving yourself, connecting with yourself continuously for a period of time, then you start feeling the energy moving inside you. You can use Kriya, you can use meditation, you can use anything, you have so many methods. But the main thing is you are consistent. It’s about you. Catch one technique to come inside you. Go inside.
What is the aim of all these techniques? Why do we have meditation? Why do we have Kriya Yoga? It’s all to find the Master inside. Who’s the Master? Who’s the real Master inside us? You can use the knowledge path; you can use the devotion path; you can use the service path; it is all to find who our true Master is. When you really, really concentrate on yourself; going within, finally, you’ll find the Master – the soul factor, the energy factor, which is running your show.
Speaker: I’m sorry I was reading the question, and I didn’t hear. Could you repeat, please?
Mohanji: When you consistently concentrate on going inside, eventually you will find the Master inside; the soul factor which is running the show, which is making you function. If the soul goes from the body, we call it a dead body. Correct?
So, we are essentially this Master. We are the Master inside, but not the mind, or the ego Master. Ego tells us, “Oh! I’m better than other people; I’m a Master”, not like that. The real Master, the electricity inside, is making this whole thing function and experience the world. We find that person, and then you understood the Master. When you have actually understood your Master, you have become a Master. Very simple.
That means when you have understood the source inside you; the source which is activating you, making you function, making you experience the world, once you see that person, or see that energy, you have understood the real Master inside you, then you become the Master. So, somebody who has understood the Master, the real Master inside, He is a Master. The answer to the question, who is a Master – somebody who has recognised, understood, experienced the Master inside, is a Master.
Ram was an avatar. He came with full awareness. He knew why he was born, what was his job, what he was supposed to do, he knew the purpose of life. He knew who he was, so he was a Master. Since Ram knew his purpose of existence, he lived only that. Since Ram had full clarity about his existence, and about his life; in every twist and turn, in every level, he understood. And he was cool about it. He was not affected.
When you have clarity, you become cool. When you have confusion, you become angry, you become upset, you start hating and all those things. Whenever you have confusion, think about somebody sitting inside you, who has no confusion. The Master sitting inside is cool always.
Coming back to Alvaro’s question, you want to be like Hanumanji. First, create one point of contact. Remove all your doubts, confusions, jealousy, all those things connected to that and focus on that contact. Imagine Hanuman is your mind; when the mind is connected to the source, the mind becomes the source.
When the mind is connected to an addiction, then the mind becomes an addiction. The mind nurtures and holds addictions. If your addiction is your Master, 100% sure, you will become the Master. But you should not doubt; you should not blame. You should not compare, criticise, judge. Take your time to find the Master; you can take any number of years to find the Master. But once you find him, stay connected; make the Master your addiction. That means your heart, your soul, your body is given to the Master, and then you become the Master. That is why Hanuman became so powerful. In Hanuman’s case, it is said that even the hair on his body was chanting Ram, every cell had Ram inside. Ram, Ram all the time; that is addiction. Totally addicted to the Master!
Many people like to connect to a Master who is not in a physical body. What is the problem with connecting to somebody who is not in the body? Somebody who is not in the body, who has died and gone, but we know his teachings, we hear his teachings through books. When we connect to that kind of Master, what is the main problem? It is okay, it is not a problem for the sake of living, but for transformation, for connection, what is the problem?
The teachings that we know of a great Master today are usually interpretations. That means 30% is teaching, 70% is interpretation, imagination. It may not be the same what the Master said. The original teachings, nobody knows. Interpretations are what we listen to. Based on interpretations, people who are talking, or people who are interpreting may not have the same frequency as the Master. As I said earlier, in every generation, there are Masters who have mastered or who have understood ‘who is the Master’, experienced the real Master inside us. The Masters of the past are definitely authentic. Rama, Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, they are all authentic. And the Masters who have found themselves in this life also, are authentic. So it is your choice, preferably connect to somebody in the body, so that they can tell you where you’re going wrong easily. And it is the toughest to connect to a living Master. Mirella, can vouch for it.
Speaker: Yes.
Mohanji: What happens when you connect to a real Master directly? Your identifications, which is maintained by the ego, starts breaking. So, the fastest track is always through a living Master, but I’m not saying that a non-living Master is inferior. Not at all. They are good but follow your own heart, not the interpretations.
If you really like to be Hanumanji, you should be steadfast, clear in connection. Nothing else matters; nothing else. Only Ram matters, only the Master, your own connected Master, and that Master should be Ram for you. If you’re Hanumanji, who you are connected to should be Ram. Not that he is Ram, but the same way, and focus. And then you become that, become the Master, then you become very powerful, and you will know that; all your ego is lost. You have become completely free; you will experience tremendous power and freedom.
Now the question. What’s your question?
Speaker: Javier and Krishna have asked these two questions. It is about ego. If the ego is there, it is not helping us to find the Master that is within us, and what to do with a mind that is jumping all around and it’s very difficult to concentrate on one Master?
Mohanji: That’s a habit; pattern. We talk about not being able to concentrate, mind running after something; these are patterns which we have created. You need to tame your mind. You need to concentrate on one person, one method, one practice, one teaching, one path based on your orientation, what suits you.
Ego is there for everybody. You cannot run away from the ego. Ego is part of our system. Surrender your ego to the Master. “I leave it to you.” That is why a living Master has value. Master will squeeze your ego, and make you free. You can only follow what suits you; otherwise, it will not work.
If you are in the path of knowledge, you can only follow a Guru in the path of knowledge. Some people can only follow devotion, bhakti, that is their path. Some people can follow service, that is their path. We are all a mixture. What is predominant in you, that’s your right path. Understand what you are, what is your orientation; this is very important. Then you walk the path. And where you have parked your mind, that’s what you will become.
Understand this clearly. All our life, we are making prison cells for ourselves, our activity, our relationship, our possessions, our positions; they have made prison cells for us, they have bound us. Every relationship has restricted or made our boundaries, restricted our walking space. Every possession and position has restricted us. Can you see that? If you look at all our lives, whether you’re working, whether you are a family person, whether you are in a society, whatever you are, all these name and fame, and the possessions and positions, they all made us cages, prison cells. So, it is our job to be free. This is your spirituality.
Being free is spirituality. It doesn’t mean that we are not in the society, we do not have possessions, and we do not have positions; but having the awareness that this is not what we are. We are free in silence, and the only thing that is free inside, which is enjoying the freedom, is the soul factor.
A true Master will never bind you. The real relationship, which gives you freedom is your relationship with a true Master. Don’t compare a cult with the true path. This is a different path. One is towards brightness; one is binding. A cult is binding; they bind people with fear. We have to be free from all fears. A true spiritual path is a path of freedom. A true spiritual path brings you to yourself. A true Master brings you to yourself. That is the true path. So it’s easy to understand what is a true path and what is a cult. A cult binds you with fear. Here, there is no fear. You don’t have to be afraid of yourself, and you are the path.
So, to be Hanuman, very easy, is to be connected, permanently. If you want to be a Master; there are two ways. One is to connect to somebody, who has found the Master inside and settled in that awareness, or you have to find it yourself inside. Both are okay.
Speaker: I’m receiving messages that we should finish. We are 35 minutes over your time.
Mohanji: Is there a burning question? Is there a very important question? I would like to answer and then go.
Self-acceptance
Speaker: Yes, there is a burning question. She wrote to me several times here, and it is about how to accept myself 100%.
Mohanji: The simple answer is, you have no choice. You are the only person whom you cannot avoid. You are the only person whom you cannot escape from. If you understand that real freedom is freedom from the senses and not freedom of the senses and the mind, you will start accepting yourself better.
Real freedom is freedom from the senses and the mind; that means you’re not tempted by too many things outside. You are happy with what is inside, your Atma Tatwa, or principles.
The second level is gratitude, very, very powerful. When you start appreciating electricity, water, food, and everything like oxygen, start having gratitude for everything in your life, then you start appreciating yourself also. Take one decision. You will not take anything for granted.
Maria Rosa has a question.
Duality
Speaker: How to overcome duality that we have in those moments when we lose the connection with our Master?
Mohanji: Well, it’s always like that. We have to come back consistently. There will be times when you are detached, again, you come back. Again, you detach automatically, and again you come back. This journey is like that. It cannot be a hundred per cent consistent in the beginning. After a while, your top priority becomes the Master. Your only connection will be to the Master, or your only interest is the Master, then you become the Master, then you don’t have duality.
Mohanji: Clear? Is Maria Rosa happy?
Speaker: Perfect. Oh yes.
Speaker: Thank you so much Mohanji. It’s been an enormous pleasure. I think this conversation is going to help a lot of people. Thank you so much.
Mohanji: Love you all. At the end of the day, only love remains.
A very warm welcome to all of you. It gives me immense joy to be with all of you today. Today is the third part of My conversations with Mohanji.
Absorb His wisdom, absorb His vibrations.
Time
Host: Please explain to us about the time. As average humans, we linearly understand time, but I guess that is not the way it is. Could you please share your insight on this?
Mohanji: Well, time is always multi-dimensional. For a woman who is going to deliver a child, every moment is like 10 hours. But for a person who is experiencing ecstasy, even an hour vanishes in no time. So the concept of time itself is relative; especially for us, existing in linear time, and that means yesterday, today, tomorrow, the day after, and so on, it has different values at each time. We experience different values for time. Time is not static. Time is variable, and time has its effect as per our situation, condition, orientation. It changes as per our mood. A situation changes the effect of time.
But there is one period of time, every day, in 24 hours, where we nullify everything –the deep sleep time. When we are in a deep sleep, all the dimensions end. We do not see anything. We do not have any idea about time; rather, time doesn’t matter. Even in our own life, what values time the most, is the mind-matter – mind, intellect, and ego because it is operating on linear time. The body is being carried by time, from birth till death. But the soul is not affected by time. In our system, there are multiple faculties, with different orientations about time. So you can’t define time in one sentence. It’s a relative term.
Then there are parallel realities. Parallel realities mean simultaneous happenings; only at the soul level, you can connect to them. At the Physical level and the mind level, we can’t connect to those realities, because this is the reality we are occupied with. We believe we are this reality.
Just now you said it’s your birthday. Birthday of what? Birthday for this incarnation, this body; so it’s a relative thing. For the soul – what birthday? It is another day in its existence as a unit. The soul is not affected by birthdays, but the body and mind are affected. The mind is happy that there is a celebration. The body has no idea that this is its birthday. It goes through it. At the time of death, that body is left behind. The body is just a cage we use for an expression or experience.
Time has multiple levels of existence. Time is the same, but what we perceive has multiplicity, dimensional differences. When you are completely occupied in silence, where sound itself is alien for you, then, time doesn’t matter. You became eternal. What you connect to becomes you. So when you deeply connect to the eternal aspect of your own existence, then time doesn’t matter. You become a time rider, like a wave rider. You’ll be riding time because you’re already eternal.
Great masters like Babaji, Sai Baba, Akkalkot Maharaj, Bhagavan Nithyananda, and numerous other masters are examples of this existence. They have become eternal because of their connection or identification with the eternal aspect in you, which is your soul; thus, they became eternal. For them, leaving a body doesn’t mean leaving any story; the story exists; leaving a body doesn’t mean anything. Inside a body or outside the body, they work alike. Consider, for example, Babaji. Babaji is a different dimension; but I’m merely giving an example, to explain that with the body or without, He is very active. Hanumanji is very active; Shirdi Sai Baba is very active. The body could not bind them. The body will not bind you if your identification is with the eternal aspect of you.
If your identification is with your body, your personality, or ego, it’s perishable. Whatever rises will also fall. The ego arises; the ego falls. Everything rises and falls each day; in 24 hours you see the rise and fall; you arise in the morning, you fall in the night. Birth and death are happening every day. Death is the total annihilation of your existence, deep sleep. When you wake up, you rise again. Rise and fall are happening; like sunrise and sunset; every day. Identify this, that this is exactly the existence. Then you start detaching from what seems to be you, to what is you. What seems to be you is what people perceive you to be, as you are or what you project to the world, as you are. What are you, in reality, is beyond your third dimension, to the level of who or what is the source that moves you. The Source is eternal. No change happens to the Source. The Source is permanent. When you connect to the permanent aspect, you become eternal.
Other Dimensions
Q: Baba, would you like to shed some light on the other dimensions that exist? Is Earth going through an ascension cycle?
Mohanji: Earth is not going through anything. We are going through. We blame it on Earth. Evolution is for the human mind, not for the Earth. Earth is a reflection of what we are. What we project is what you see. We are constantly projecting things to this world, all the time, 7.5 billion people are projecting various things to the world. They can only project what they are. You can’t project what you don’t have. So you are projecting what you are. Another person is projecting what he or she is, and the conglomeration of all these put together, we call life.
So the Earth is a platform. Earth has all that is needed to give flavours to life. It’s like a huge hypermarket. You can go, pick up things from there, and you can make your curry. And that’s what you’re doing. So the Earth is not on ascension or decline; human minds are.
When we talk about yugas, ascension means entering into Satya yuga or the golden age. The golden age is a state of eternity, where you choose the time of your death, you choose when to stay, how long to stay, and when to leave. However, karmic birth is not the same. Karmic birth is a bundle of desires; fulfilment is needed; take a body, fulfil it; and then you carry forward more desires and come back again. This is karmic birth.
When you are in the Satya yuga mode, it means that firstly, you have no desires. You have no connection with the world outside, except that you exist in the world, like an Avadhoota; you are fully in the world, but you are not of the world, or not with the world. That state; a state of detachment is the first aspect. The second aspect is the perfect awareness of who you are. You only exist, revelling in the inside story, your inside story, in your soul, with that aspect. It’s not the denial of existence. It is a full awareness of existence. It is not an intellectual or emotional feeling that you are not what you are; that is an illusion.
What I am saying is that you are fully occupied with your own soul material, and you realize this is your truth. You stay there, totally stabilized, totally still. Then you are in Satya yuga. So, Satya yuga is existing right now, for some people. All people have that ability. This is what Babaji and other great masters are doing. This is what they are giving you, or this is what they are guiding you towards but through practices. However, what happens is that people get stuck with practices. They think that these practices will help you. Practices are only like a bridge to help one go across. Each step, each practice should take you deeper and deeper inside.
More than a practice, sometimes, integration to the Master’s Consciousness helps. Imagine a master who’s well established in Himself, is with you and you connect to that Master. That is what Baba meant when he said, “I just sat and looked at my Guru. I did nothing. I looked at Him; He gave me everything.” He gave it, does not mean that the Master takes (something), and gives it to you. You become the Master because what you are connected to him, constantly, consistently, without doubts, without prejudices, without comparisons, without competition; you become that. You become the Master’s Consciousness. You become the Master.
So true masters make others masters, not disciples. No true Master is interested in disciples. What will they do? What will you do with a lot of people? Instead, true Masters makes others masters. But then, it’s the equation and the orientation and the disposition of the disciple that makes them masters. If there is a disciple who’s constantly doubting, criticizing, competing, or comparing and discussing intellectually, he will only see an object or another personality called the Master. They can’t connect. There’s no connection happening. More than the visual aspect, it is the deeper connection that brings transformation. So what is spirituality? Transformation. So when you talk about multiple levels of existence, it is all simultaneous. That means, definitely we are aware of multiple levels of existence each day-waking state, dream state, deep sleep state.
Beyond that, there are multiple possibilities, depending on the level of illusion that you hold. If you are completely deluded that you are this physical form and this personality, you have only this life. But when you start connecting to your soul deeper and deeper and deeper, then you start realizing that whatever I seem to be, is only one aspect of me. But I can have many more aspects. Then automatically your dimension changes. This is a very broad subject, very big, very deep.
First of all, the time as we see, linear time is only one aspect of time. This is number one. There is a possibility of past, present, and future together, simultaneously. Like Lord Krishna explained to Arjuna in the 11th chapter (of the Bhagavad Gita), when he showed his Vishwaroopa. “All the people who are supposed to die are already dead and gone.” He told
Arjuna, “Look here! You are only an instrument. What has to happen has happened already, in real-time.”
So Lord Krishna showed this to get the idea to the people; showed this because the people understand that past, present, and future are simultaneously existing. But we do not perceive it because we are oriented with this identification, this body, this life, these identifications, these orientations, character, and constitution so that we only see linear time: yesterday, today, tomorrow, the day after. We cannot catch the possibility of vertical time. Again linear, horizontal, and vertical times are just expressions. Don’t think that the time is standing up now. It’s not like that. They are all just to explain the possibilities, so they are all existing simultaneously.
I explained this earlier in another program – When one person asked Ramana Maharshi, “If I die now”, usually they say that it takes about 700 days before you take another birth. It’s a general statement. Don’t take it seriously, because there’s no rule like that. So he asked Ramana Maharishi, “If I die now, will I take another body in two years?”
So Ramana Maharshi said, “Possible, definitely possible. But in that life, you would be already 70 years. That means there is a parallel existence already happening!” So when you leave this body, you merge another body of yours, and you continue. In linear time, you never understand this; it is very difficult.
But that is why through meditations, through connection, contemplation of “Who am I? What am I? Why am I?” and through deep penetration or even easier through a deep connection to a very powerful Master, a better understanding is possible. By Master I mean, not those that you usually see in the world outside, those that talk. They are mostly acharyas, and they are practitioners. That’s not what I mean. I mean somebody who’s really established in Consciousness or has established himself completely within. That’s a true master. So if you are able to connect to somebody like that, then you may connect to this aspect faster.
Again, it’s a big trap. When you connect to somebody who’s already established, that person will look very ordinary; this is the problem. He will have no paraphernalia. He will know, he will not show or state, “Hey, look here! See, I’m a big master.” Once they are fully settled inside, you will not show; they lose all interest in the world outside: nothing to prove, nothing to approve. Then what happens- they’re fully themselves. When they’re fully themselves when they are not showing off, people will think, “What type of a man is he?! I’m wasting my time with him.”
People expect miracles. People expect certain paraphernalia, a certain amount of show. If you don’t get it, then you think this is not the right guy. That is why I said there’s a big trap here, trap or a problem here. You’ve got to see through all these ordinary things and look within to see the brightness inside. It takes time. You should have keen observation and consistency. Most people don’t have consistency. They come with an expectation. “A master will do a miracle tomorrow. I will be enlightened.” You can’t be enlightened when you are a bundle of desires because your desires are all to the external world. You want a job, you want money, you want relationships, family, girlfriend, boyfriend, all sorts of things, everything from the world outside. Then where do you have time for the world inside? When all your processors are focused on the world outside, you have only time to process what is visual, what we can perceive. That is why the Bhagavad Gita said, “Millions of sense objects in the world; to experience them – five senses, one mind. “Mind means – mind, intellect, and ego together; mind-matter.”
At one point in time, you can only experience one thing properly. That has only two results possible: happiness or sorrow. That is it! This is life. So millions become five, five becomes one, and one becomes two, and one you can experience. So basically it becomes one. This is our existence.
Host: Thank You very much, Baba!
Mohanji: Thank you for interviewing me. My love to all those who are listening to us or seeing us.
Questioner: Who is a Guru? I’ve heard a guru is like a GPS. Can we progress without a Guru?
Mohanji: Thank you very much for inviting me and thank you very much for this opportunity. My gratitude to the Healing Our Earth team and all of you.
About the question about guru – I follow the tradition of Lord Dattatreya who had 24 gurus. When somebody asked Dattatreya, “Who are you?”, he said, “I am just a worshipper of nature”. So, the fundamental is that anything and everything around us is teaching us something. And the greatest and the highest Guru is life itself – life gives you lessons.
And if you consider 24 hours, we have three distinct dimensions that we go through without any choice:
1) One is the waking state where we interact with the world outside. We gather experiences and we project ourselves into the world (and as per our projection we get experiences).
2) Then we enter into a state of the dreams, the dream state where we completely shut off the world outside, close the eyes and then go within the world inside. Then what we process here is from what we have collected and stored.
3) Then that is also shut down when we enter into a deep sleep state where we completely nullify all the experiences.
So when awareness is connected to the physical level, we have the waking state.
When awareness is connected to mind-matter (which is mind, intellect, and ego where mind processes emotions, intellect processes information and ego processes things connected to ownership), when we connect to that mind-matter and become fully immersed in that, then what comes alive is what is stored by these faculties inside.
And then we connect to the consciousness aspect when we have deep sleep, and we don’t know whether we are a man or a woman. We don’t know the time or space, we are completely not accessible to this world, and we don’t have the world to access.
We take a rebirth again every morning – we come back. So we go through this process, almost like a pattern. And then we decide that we are this personality that we have projected in the world. We are also trying to figure out what we are in this world, based on our positions and possessions.
So at some point in time, we realize that this is not really giving us the whole satisfaction – we are actually roaming around for pleasures.
At some point in time we realize there is something permanent and perpetual. That’s a time when we start associating – that the first level of physical, second level of mind-matter and then the third level of consciousness : that it has got these three states, we start thinking about it. It is called manana, not dhyana (meditation), it’s contemplation. That is why various masters have time and again repeated that it is important to contemplate, not meditate. Meditation will happen spontaneously but contemplation is very, very important. The more you contemplate, the more you realize that there is somebody witnessing the whole show. And then it is a quest for knowing who is the permanent, unshakable witnessing this whole show and is always unattached. So this question happens inside. And then we start going within. And it’s an inner journey, it’s definitely not an outside journey.
So as far as the tradition that I follow is concerned, you’ve got to find yourself, and that’s the whole thing. When the student asked the teacher, “I can’t really understand all these scriptures – Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Shrutis, Smritis, and 33 crore Gods! I can’t really go through all this. I can’t understand. Tell me in one word what this whole story is”.
The teacher said, “YOU! You are the whole story. Tat Tvam Asi”. (You are that)
Then the quest is to find this You, who is actually making all this experience possible. That’s the way the connection happens.
So the Dattatreya tradition has great masters like Sai Baba who everybody knows. He lived as a fakir and a Sufi saint. And though he was living in one place, his energy and power radiated in several places. As a perfect avadhoota, he had fully turned inward the faculties like mind, intellect and ego, and started finding himself. And then he finally found the soul aspect, the atma tattva, stabilized there and settled down. Then what you see outside is your own reflection everywhere. So all the leaves, plants, trees, people, animals, birds, everything gives you a lesson. Because you see yourself in everything. And then you become one with the whole universe. So this is the guru principle that we are talking about.
Guru is definitely not just a human being. Of course we talk about Lord Krishna, as jagath (world) guru. Definitely because he lived the detachment. What he lived for is valid even now, because he was in everything and he was in nothing. Perfect detachment. So like that, there have been masters who time and again came and displayed the possibility of existing without boundaries and full freedom.
Freedom means freedomfromthe senses and mind, not freedom of the senses. We have misunderstood this concept too much. When we talk about freedom, we talk about freedom to do anything we like to do or to say whatever we like, that in society we can be ourselves as we are. That is not freedom. That is just an expression of patterns. What freedom is, is the freedom from senses and mind where we do not have any kind of binding to anything around. So this is exactly the freedom which the masters have lived, and expressed.
Now when you talk about guru principle, the job of the guru was to live it and the job of the disciple was to connect to that principle of freedom and walk towards it, inside. Go within and find yourself. So this takes time. In my earlier days, I used to go to the Himalayas quite often when I was working in a company as well. And I was trying to find out this me and it took a long time. I did not have a personal guru at that time, but I connected to my spine – being aware of the spine when I’m walking, when I’m doing things, I’m still aware of the spine. And then automatically things started shifting, awareness started shifting, it took me many years. But the point I’m trying to tell is that if you really want to find your guru, you have to find yourself. If you have found yourself, you found the guru. Then everything around is your guru. All the gurus brighten up when you brighten up. So this is already sitting inside. So that is why Tat Tvam Asi has a lot of value. That means, this is the fundamental principle of all the scriptures. If everything were put together and crushed and a juice made out of it all, you get one thing called You. That is the final thing you can get.
When we walk this path, don’t think it will be easy – because our patterns have become too strong. We have been used to so many things, we have been literally entertaining ourselves and our patterns for a long period of time. And we have forgotten that we are bound by patterns, bound by concepts, bound by prejudices. When we look at a person we decide that we don’t like him, or we like him. This is all connected to how we see the world. Basically, there are no enemies, there are no friends, it’s just as it is, and the world is as it is. We all have our space, we all have our relevance, our activity, we have to do something here and all that we are doing is projecting ourselves to the world and getting it back. That is what we are doing. But once you start assimilating yourself, once you find yourself, then you stop projecting, as there’s nothing to project. Instead you start reflecting like a mirror, you will be like a mirror. When somebody comes in front, you reflect that without prejudices, without expectations, without any kind of flavors – as it is. So that makes you a perfect master, total reflection. That is why great masters like Haidakhan Baba said, “When you come to me with anger, I become anger. When you come to me with love, I become love”. That means that you do not have flavors to project, instead you are being a reflection of the whole world, and that is a very sincere reflection, there’s no flavor. And that is consistent, no change. So when you become like that, you become like a huge magnet because you have no flavors. You become every flavor, you are everybody, you’re everything! There is no discrimination, you see the atma tattva in everything, the soul particle, the soul aspect factor which is in all things, and you connect to that – no barrier. So this is exactly what the soul principle is. And that is exactly what the guru principle is.
On Guru Purnima day, all I would like to tell you that whatever you are searching for is already within. And when you realize that, it is called self-realization. The realization is only of what you already have and what you realize at some point in time is that you have it. So that’s very simple, and all you need to do to achieve that is to spend time with yourself, not in books, not in rituals, not in activities, not with people. You’ve got to find time for yourself, assimilate yourself. For all that you need to accept yourself. Most of us have a big problem accepting ourselves. We judge ourselves, criticize ourselves, we doubt ourselves. And that creates the distance between ourselves and us. We find it difficult to come within because our acceptance is conditional for ourselves. And then the same thing gets reflected in society – you don’t accept everybody, then we don’t accept situations either. And then we sometimes have a lot of opinions. The world is full of opinions, but we have to go beyond opinions and realize the truth. Opinions are flavored because they are situational, and they are a play of duality. But reality is totally detached from opinions. So we got to really cut out all this, these kind of fringes. And then you come inside. And then you feel okay : ‘I’m complete as it is, I’m unique. I’m neither higher, nor lower or equal to anybody. I’m unique, and this is exactly what I’m supposed to express in this world, nothing more’. And then you start connecting to yourself.
So total acceptance is the first step, and complete liberation is the result. Thank you very much.
Questioner: My god, that was so enlightening. My eyes were glued on your eyes, trying to focus on this message. My question for others. Freedom from senses and mind is one of the most difficult things to go through. How would you recommend this for individuals to go through?
Mohanji: Thanks very much. The first step is always acceptance, self-acceptance, self-respect, self-love. See, the most criticized person in our life is ourselves by ourselves! We judge ourselves, we compare ourselves, and we criticize ourselves when we try to compete with other people, and then we dilute our uniqueness in that way, and that’s the detrimental factor. We say – I am not good enough because of X number of reasons – this is not true.
We are good enough, we are unique. Nobody is like us. Our thumb impression is unique to ourselves and our retina is unique to ourselves, and we are unique creations. This has to be accepted, the first and primary step. And that is the moment we start accepting ourselves, we stop competing and stop comparing. Then we start connecting with ourselves with wonder, like a child. Like you know, when a small child is given a toy. The child will be playing, touching the toy and feeling the toy and literally enjoying the toy for a long time. And then it really is fully occupied, full concentration Like that, we have to accept ourselves as a unique creation and start experiencing ourselves with wonder, not as somebody in the society (that is only when we are awake).
There are two things to understand: one is pratheethi and the other is anubhoothi.
Pratheethi means we open our eyes and we see things outside and we connect to those things, and we have an experience.
Anubhoothi means even if you close your eyes, you have that experience inside, you don’t need an object. For example, when you wake up in the morning and you say, ‘Oh, I’m happy, I slept well’, there was no material, there was no person, there was no interaction, but still you’re happy. So we realize that for happiness, you don’t really have to interact with the world. So that kind of awareness takes you to yourself and you start exploring that aspect of yourself. This is all simple awareness that we should have. Awareness. Bodh!
Awareness is the key, when you are aware of yourself and you accept : the 2 A’s (acceptance, awareness.) You do that all the time – when you’re working, when you’re traveling, when you’re sitting in one place, when you’re interacting, just be aware of how you are, what you are, and be fascinated by yourself. So then after a while, you will be fully connected to yourself, and you will be very much linked and happy with yourself. See, all our frustrations, anxieties, insecurities everything is connected to the world outside – all of them will have no value anymore, because we have a lot to see and a lot to feel inside.
And that’s the way we come inside. There are techniques defined by various traditions such as concentrating on the heartbeat, concentrating on the breath, and also assimilating, you are controlling, the pranayama kind of stuff. All those things are there. Anything which is suitable for you is good for you. That’s no problem. But fundamentally, everything should start with acceptance. And there you go, and then be aware. When you’re angry, be aware of the anger, when you’re jealous, be aware of the jealousy. Always be aware but do nothing about it. When you’re constantly being aware, already your witness. You’re taking a step backwards and seeing it. When you are seeing it, that thing loses its intensity. When you are experiencing anger and you’re witnessing the anger, the anger will happen, but you are not angry. This is the difference. So when you take one step backwards and start looking at it, you know that you are actually powerful, you’re not a victim of all these emotions. Instead, you are experiencing all these emotions and you’re still the same, you are completely a witness. This is possible. It takes time, but the first foremost step is acceptance. That is why I keep insisting on acceptance because if we don’t accept yourself; society will not accept us. So this is as simple as that. When you look at the whole society, so many people love you so many people hate you – so you have an element of non-acceptance, which is getting reflected. Whatever you get from society is your own projections. And when that projection ends, then you become a reflection, then the society loves you because they only see themselves in you, they don’t see you. So, there you become lovable. You’re one with the world. You’re part of the world, part of the universe in fact. Everybody enjoys your presence because you are Brightness. You’re like a mirror!!
Questioner: That was a very strong answer! Something I picked up from there was self-recognition, self-appreciation, self-approval. It is so vital to do that, to actually recognize yourself that you are the person you are. That’s awesome. Now it’s interesting, this philosophy, this concept is amazing. I will read the message. I will take home this message. However, to live this message on a day-to-day basis : how strongly do you feel the power of association is? Because if you engage with like-minded people who think this philosophy, live this philosophy, breathe this philosophy, it’s that much easier to be with them in order to think that. Now, can you reflect your message on a day-to-day basis? What to do, how can we make this a part of our life, our breath?
Mohanji: There are two parts to this question; one I feel that we should not detach from anything that comes our way, we must accept. Because when we detach, there are two things happening: one is suppression, other is escapism, and these two are equal to postponement. We should not postpone – we are postponing to some other time. When fears happen, we look into the eyes of fears. When situations happen, accept them. Some situations may not be very easy to accept. If you don’t accept, they hang on, they stay, they persist. So whatever we resist, persists. So I always recommend acceptance in everything: ‘Come, come, we look into the eyes. Bring it on.’ And that makes you free, liberated, because you’re not hiding from anything. You’re not avoiding things, you’re not escaping nor are you trying to manipulate things. It is as it is. We are taking it, as it is.
And secondly, often we can’t avoid many situations in life. For example, workplace situations – one can’t change them. So, being yourself there is the right answer. And always one thing in every situation, we do not have to respond. There are two ways you can interact with a situation. One is to react emotionally, which we usually do – egotistically, emotionally. And the result is usually regret or guilt. Or the other way is to respond using the intellect and just take it easy, take a foot back and look at it and then respond with awareness, and with intellect so that it will not create emotions. These are the two major ways we can interact with society. I always recommend responding, not reacting. Reacting always leaves some bad residue, which is not good. So if you constantly respond, and you have your time, your space and you respond, then you are always light and free. And then you do not have to handle so much of the hangover of regrets or guilt. So that itself saves a lot of time, because we have to handle a lot of all these kinds of things.
So in this society, whatever happens, let it happen. We are not trying to change it. We can’t change it. So we interact in our social life, in our family life, in business life – it’s all one life, but in all the situations we are playing different roles. And in those roles, just be ourselves, keep responding. And our equilibrium, our inner stability, our peace quotient is very vital for us. The peace quotient, and that’s inside us, we already have it. Peace is a state of the soul. Soul is always peaceful whatever emotions we go through. In turbulences, and similar situations, the soul is not affected. So we are coming in contact with our inner core all the time. Or just be reminded that there is a situation inside, which is completely unaffected and try to imitate it. And then we respond and not react. And this is also connected to ownership a lot. Means we own our actions that” I do this , I do this” , this I factor is sometimes very painful. So instead, like what Krishna said, in the Gita,
That is what He said: “I happen”. He did not say, “I take birth”. “I happen”, He says.
Life is about happening. Happening means you are actually happening, or life is as it takes place; not that we have created it. There is of course a history for everything, something has produced a situation and something will happen to the situation; there will be a result, but at the same time everything is sprouting. So we understand that. And we assimilate that, and we accept that. We are not the owner of the action. Ownership of action creates pain, disappointments and also karma. If there’s no ownership, the karmic structure is different. When you do not own it and you are surrendered, (like kaayena vaaccha manasendriyairvaa). And there you are detached from your action, and you’re flowing through. When you are flowing through, you are always free.
And that is what Vyasa said when he ate all the sweets, which the Brajvaasis (residents of Braja) had brought. The Yamuna River was overflowing and Krishna was on the other side. The Brajvaasis said, “We want to cross to the other side but can’t go as no boatman will take us, because the river is overflowing”. Vyasa asked, “What did you bring for Krishna?” They showed him all the sweets and he started eating them. They were embarrassed to tell him not to eat because he was Vyasa. And then Vyasa said, ”Come with me”, and when they reached the shore, he said, “If I have not eaten anything, let the river part”. And the river parted. The Brajwasis went to the other side but were surprised as they knew Vyasa had eaten all the sweets in front of them. Finally they found Krishna sleeping on a bench in the garden, and they waited. And Krishna got up and asked them, “What did you bring?” So they said all these things. Krishna said, “Sorry I can’t eat them because my stomach is full after eating the same things a little while ago”. That means when Vyasa was consuming it, he was offering it to Krishna, and though it was going into the mouth of Vyasa, it was going into the stomach of Krishna. So this is exactly the point.
The point is that if you are absolutely, completely surrendered to existence, then karma cannot take place. The other side I’m saying is that, when we know that everything is happening in life, and you are completely floating through it, like you’re cruising, there will be turbulences, but it doesn’t matter – the ownership and the pain connected will not be present.
Questioner: This was an amazing tip that you’ve given, and this is why they say that we need a guru who can guide us properly so these are some amazing tips that you should share, thank you very much for sharing !!
Shlloka: Namaste to all the viewers joining us from all across the world. Amway presents International Day of Yoga, 20, powered by Ozone Organic AdvantAge. I am Shlloka, your host for today evening and I also have with me my co-host, Nidhi Kumar. We also acknowledge our event producers Union, Red Carpet Entertainers supported by Ministry of Ayush, ISH Rights Foundation, International Naturopathy Organization Titli Jaipur, and powered by Ozone Organic AdvantAge . Our distribution partners and co-host, The Nehru center, The High Commission of India, Mystics of India, Sadhguru and Green Dream Foundation and Spiritual TV. And together we’d like to fervently welcome all of you on International day of Yoga.
Yoga means union. Yoga or the yogic way of living since time immemorial has been entrenched in every facet of our lives. So, in our part of the culture, marriage was not just seen as marriages, but yoga. Careers or job, weren’t just seen as that, but yoga. Children, bearing a child, raising them wasn’t just that, but yoga.
So, why was yoga such an integral part of our lives? Today, lets re-examine some of the lost dimensions of yoga. We have with us individuals who are experts of yoga and the yogic way of living. From devoting their lives to being in yoga, to helping others achieve the very same. It is with great love and reverence I’d like to welcome the panelists for today. Nidhiji, can you please do the honor?
Nidhi: Mohanji, a globally renowned humanitarian, who has dedicated his life towards the earth and service to all beings with a conviction that the world should be a better place because we have lived here. Namaste Mohanji. Welcome! Acharya Sri Punrik Goswami ji, who would be joining us in a while, the young and highly famed bhakti yogi and vedic scholar who has been delivering eloquent discourses from the age of seven years. This Oxford alumnus has garnered millions of devotees all over the world.
Pandit Vama Deva Shastri, Dr David Frawley, and an author of about 40 books. He has contributed extensively towards vedas, vedanta, yoga, ayurveda, and vedic astrology. Welcome to the program, Sir!
Sadhvi Bhagawati Saraswati ji, a PhD from Stanford. She is a renowned spiritual leader living in Parmarth Niketan ashram for 24 years, engaged in many spiritual and humanitarian programs. Dear guests, it is such a pleasure, privilege and honor to have you here with us today. Thank you for joining us once again.
And to all the viewers, as you watch, we would request you to share this video, so the maximum people can be benefitted from this.
My first question to you, Dr Frawley: Where does it all begin, if you can briefly take us through the genealogy and the genesis of yoga through the centuries? Who better than you?
David Frawley: Yes, yoga is our own deepest self. All life is yoga. Yoga originates with the creation of the universe itself, yoga is the teaching, the practice, the application of the wisdom of the cosmic mind and deeper intelligence. Yoga is at the root of world’s civilizations. It is the root of Indian civilization, and it is found at the very origins of Indian civilization, in the Vedas, the great mantras of the Rishis, and it is there even archaeologically we know, we discovered the origins of yoga in the ancient ruins, Harappan Culture, Vedic Culture, Saraswati River; much work is being done in those particular areas.
The Rishis of the Vedas were great yogis; the mantras of the Vedas, like Gayatri are great inspirations to yoga. Yoga then developed through the Vedas, into the Upanishads where we have the yogic practices of self-inquiry, inner knowing, self -realization, explained with great clarity. Yoga then manifests in the personal form of Sri Krishna, the Yoga Avatara, in the Bhagavad Gita and also Mahabharata. Yoga also then takes its compilation in the Yoga Sutras of the Patanjali sometime later. It is, however, pervading all the dharmic traditions and teachings. Then yoga develops through yoga shastras, yoga Upanishads, various branches of yoga: samkhya yoga, shaivite yoga, vaisnava yoga; in many different forms, all the knowledge, devotion, practice, karma, everything. Then over time, yoga spread, of course, with all the dharmic traditions throughout Asia, throughout the world.
We had then even at later times the great Nath yogis, the siddha yoga, the hatha yoga, and then we had the great Swami Vivekananda who shared this great yoga tradition globally starting in 1893 in Chicago. The global renaissance of yoga coming to the present day with great yogis from India travelling all over the world, sharing the wisdom of yoga and becoming the gurus and teachers of many millions, from the leaders of the society to the common people. Then, we have yoga as part of India’s independence movement; its cultural renaissance; great yogis like Sri Aurobindo, behind that movement. We’ve also had this global movement of yoga, international yoga day, and we have yoga practice by millions throughout the world, starting with the basic asana practices extending to pranayama, mantra, meditation, and yoga is taking us forward into another century. Yoga is taking us forward into new planetary age for humanity and it is essential that we bring this yoga tradition forward. Particularly today we have so much conflict, unhappiness, suffering in the world. Also, of course, we have this pandemic going on. Yoga can connect us to the inner wealth springs of prana, to our deeper harmony with the environment. The yoga of ecology can connect us to world peace, unity, and allow us to use our technology in the best possible way for the evolution of consciousness, intelligence, wellbeing, harmony in humanity, rather than just simply the technology for the outer development. So, lets welcome a new age of yoga for the 21st century and International Yoga Day, as the day of the year that connects us to that aspiration. Hari Om!
Nidhi: Thank you so much.
Shlloka: Sadhviji, my question to you is: What is yoga, and what is not yoga? When we talk about yoga in contemporary times, we mostly see glamorous images of people, celebrities, models and different kinds of poses. It is even happening at the competitive levels. It is happening at the stage and national level championships. People are getting medals for being the best at yoga. So, yoga has largely been perceived as performance, as a sporting activity, as a recreational activity, or at best –a health activity. So, we see a new style of yoga erupting every day, whether it is aerobics yoga, power yoga, aerial hot yoga, there is even beer and puppy yoga. People are using all kinds of inversions, props, heaps to be in yoga. So my question to you Sadhvi ji is: What is the correct kind of yoga to pursue and what do you make of this kind of evolution, modernization, reinvention, or if I may even say- distortion?
Sadhvi ji: So, as you mentioned in your very beginning introduction, and as Vama Dev ji said so beautifully: yoga is union on the deepest, highest, and the most full and complete level. When we look at the scriptures, that we commonly talk about as scriptures of yoga, there isn’t a mention there, you look at for example, in Bhagavad Gita, and there is nothing in the Bhagavad Gita that says, that done with a straight leg is yoga, that done with the bent leg is not yoga, or turning to the right is yoga, and turning to the left is not yoga. Yoga is that which unites, and yoga is that out of union, so that’s the science, the art, the expression of yoga. In the Bhagavad Gita, in fact, Lord Krishna speaks about so much – seven hundred verses of yoga, but it’s… what is it. Its bhakti, devotion, love, its gyan yoga, wisdom, knowledge, its karma yoga, the way that we act moving toward union, as well as the way that we act when we are rooted in union. There is no mention in all of the seven hundred verses of a particular posture being the right posture for yoga or not. In fact, the only mention even of asana, actually is that upon which we sit in the Gita. When we realize that core fullness of yog, we realize that it’s not about, “Oh, if it is done at this temperature, it’s yoga, or if it is done at that temperature, it’s not, or if we do it vertically, it is, horizontally it’s not.”
All of this fighting these days, all of this, sadly, separation in the name of yoga, this tragic irony in the name of union. How many different, separate lineages we have? Beautiful, no problem, as long as they recognize they’re part of a cohesive whole. But nonetheless, what you mentioned is so true: so many different lineages are saying, “This is right. That’s not right. This is the best; that’s not.’’ Even in what sage Patanjali discusses, He explained so beautifully: Sthira sukham asanam.’’-That which is stable, joyful, that is asana. Again, not that which has ropes or doesn’t have ropes, has a prop, doesn’t have a prop. It’s never been about that.
And yeah, you are right, today there’s so many different types of yoga. Almost everyday, somebody sends some kind of funny thing from online of you know, yoga in this way, or yoga in that way. But for me on a personal level, I‘ve got such a deep faith in yoga, in the science, the art, the practice, the depth, the fullness of yoga, that whatever way you enter it, you get caught up in that stream. And so, even if you enter it because you’ve got back pain or knee pain, or you enter it because you wanna lose some weight or lower your cholesterol, don’t worry! The river of yoga is so powerful. It’s gonna sweep you up. I know so many people who have entered yoga because of some physical reason, and suddenly find themselves chanting, find themselves reading scriptures, find themselves introspecting deeply on the nature of the self. So, I am not worried about yoga competitions. We all realize, of course, that it’s not a competition in the fullness of yoga. You can’t have a competition of meditation or samadhi. We are looking at asanas. Maybe we’re looking at pranayama, maximum. But mostly we are looking at asanas; we are looking at strength and flexibility in the body. And that’s ok. Yes, you are right. It would be better termed physical fitness, better termed exercise, sometimes better termed acrobatics. But, if through this, we are bringing people into the river of yoga, I am ok with that. Because that river is gonna give them the fullness, regardless of how they enter into it.
Shlloka: So true, I think it is a beautiuful perspective, Sadhviji. Mohanji, my question for you: You know, when we talk about the experiential dimension of yoga, yoga is essentially an experiential reality. You know, yoga is union. One can’t do union, one has to be in union. Similarly, one can’t do yoga, one has to be in yoga. So, one can’t really philosophize, intellectualize, reinvent, read about yoga, you have to be in yoga to experience it. This experiential dimension of yoga has unfortunately completely eroded in today’s day and age. So, if you can talk a little bit about the experiential side of yoga?
Mohanji: Thank you. As Dr Frawley and Sadhviji have already explained, the dimensions can never be explained. Yoga has huge, numerous dimensions. The sanskar of Bharat, the tradition of Bharat – all the Vedas, Upanishads, Puranas, Shrutis, Smritis, all put together is yoga. Means, summing up everything together is yoga. Like, if you crush everything and make a juice, it’s one sentence: Tat twam asi! You are that! So, yoga is bringing you to yourself. It’s a reminder. And, as you have asked, the experiential side, We have distinctly two sides which is practical for every day.
One is the pratiti side-means, we versus what we see or what we interact with, meaning something outside of us. Second is the anubhuti side – that means what is always being experienced as you; you the experiencer. So, end of the day, whatever we do, it is for experience sake, and there are only two aspects of existence. If you sum it up, one is experience, one is expression. What you express is what you are. You cannot express anything more than that, or anything beyond. But, what you experience is also as per your vasana, your inclinations and tendencies, which are inbuilt. And like that, we have instinct; instinct cannot be avoided in life because this is inbuilt. Then, inclinations and tendencies, plus desires. All these put together, this is the complex character of human existence, or this is how human beings exist.
So, in any activity- there’s an activity and awareness. They are two distinct things. When awareness is very high, activity is not significant. When we are extremely active, awareness eclipses by itself or it eclipses awareness. So, we have to be very clear and very aware. These are all guidelines for connecting to ourselves. The whole systems are to remind us who we are, and to connect us to ourselves, to be aware. So, that is why yoga is not experience, it’s not blind activity. When we go mechanically on activity, we lose awareness. And that’s the whole thing about life: extreme awareness. When both stabilizes, we become Buddha. So, to attain that state, we have to cut down on activity. If we cannot cut down on activities, what we have to do is to be aware of that activity. So, that is the experiential side. That means you detach from the activities and be aware that it is happening through you, not that you are doing. So, doingness to beingness, slowly it happens.
So, the gross aspect, physical body, then the subtle aspect, immediate subtle aspect which is the mind, intellect, ego aspect, and then the ati sukshma, the beyond the subtle, which is the activating aspect, which is consciousness and soul. So, to arrive there, you’ve got to transcend all this. Once you’ve transcended all these, you reach a state of absolute peace. We call it extreme Samadhi state, (and samadhi has also has been dissected). But, samadhi state, and that’s the state which is very natural for us. So, yoga means being natural. Yoga means being aware. And, yoga means being you.
Nidhi: How lovely. Dr Frawley, another question for you: All of yoga is one. But there are different paths to achieve it.
Shlloka: We have Pundrik ji joining us. (Sri Pundrik Goswami ji is joining the conversation).
Sri Pundrik Goswami Ji: Namaskar to everybody. I’m sorry (speaking in Hindi)
Nidhi: Thank you for joining us. You come from the bhakti tradition: bhakti, aarti, praying, chanting, and going to temples is considered religion, not yoga. Which it actually is? Bhakti yoga is often confused with religiosity. If you can explain the bhakti way of yog and why it is a yogic process?
(speaking in Hindi)
(The connection with the Pundrik ji ended)
Nidhi: So, Dr Frawley, the goal of yoga is one. But there are different paths to achieve it. What are these different types of yoga and how do we know which yoga is the meant for me, or my sister, or my friend, or my family or my brother?
Dr Frawley: Yes. Well, today when people talk about different types of yoga, they mean different styles of asanas. So, that’s only at the level of exercise, health and outer aspects of yoga. When we talk about the different forms of yoga, different branches of yoga, traditionally we mean the gyana yoga-yoga of knowledge, bhakti yoga-yoga of devotion, karma yoga-yoga of action; other special yogas-raja yoga, hatha yoga, prana yoga, nada yoga, laya yoga, mantra yoga, we can go on and on with these. But the first few are the most important. Gyana yoga: yoga of knowledge. All yogas are about knowing ourselves, but there are those who more specifically follow a path of self-inquiry, self-study, deeper meditation. Largely, they are Advaitic, or non-dualistic, or vedantic path, like Ramana Maharshi, or all the great gurus, Adi Shankara and all of that. There are few other types as well. Bhakti yoga: there are so many forms of bhakti or devotion; so many deities, Ishta Devatas, you can take your pick…Rama, Krishna, Shiva, Ganesha, Hanuman…so many forms of Devis: Sundari, Kali, Lakshmi, Saraswati… So, that richness of devotion, I think is also there in the yoga tradition and in an unparalleled way. It gives quite different sampradayas, lineages, relative Vaishnavism, shaivism, all the shakti traditions, so many… So, you have the choices there. Karma yoga: actions, service, helping others, leading a dharmic life, ayurvedic lifestyle. There is many seva you can do. Specifically, in Hatha yoga traditions, there are different aspects of kundalini yoga, tantric yoga, tantra, mantra, yantra, raja yoga – change of consciousness, yoga sutra, samkhya yoga. There are so many yoga gurus, it’s not just the question of the teachings. There are great gurus you can connect to today, living gurus today, traditions going back for centuries, sampradayas, some going back thousands of years, other sampradayas can be modern, Ramakrishna, Vedanta, you have Swami Narayan, you have Sadhguruji, you have Sri Sri, you have Parmarth-so many. So, you choose them by following your heart, following your wisdom, searching within, exploring yoga, sharing yoga, being involved with yoga sanghas, visiting temples, visiting ashrams. And you will definitely find your way if you open your inner being, study the teachings, do the mantras. Take one step forward every day in some way to increase your practice of yoga, and that will eventually connect you to all the teachers and teachings you need. But be consistent, follow a path, give it your full attention. Your goal of life and yoga will take you beyond life and death. Hari Om!
Shlloka:Sadhviji, my next question to you is the benefits of yoga. Fortunately, the physical healing and therapeutic aspects of yoga has gotten so much attention. People would like to maintain and get into the yoga path to lose weight, get fit, you know cure their back ache, diabetes, depression these days. Given that, there are many health and therapeutic benefits of yoga, but is it just that? What is the real benefit, main objective of yoga?
Sadhvi ji: So, yoga as we have been saying is union. Yoga is that which unites us with the truth of who we are and so the benefit of that cannot be overstated. That is actually the purpose of our life. In our human birth with the consciousness that it’s believed only humans have, we have that ability to actually attain the state of moksha, of freedom, of divine oneness, of truth, of Union. And so, the benefit of yoga is actually the benefit of attaining the highest purpose of your life. Dealing with a back ache, or a knee problem, or losing some weight is certainly wonderful, because we also have a body and of course the nuances of body and the pain that it experiences, the difficulties it experiences, the ailments it may experience, they impact our awareness. But to relegate yoga as some sort of just physical healthcare system is to deprive ourselves of the possibilities, the benefits of actually a system through which our highest goal in this world is attained.
Yoga, through all of the different systems, even if we just look at the yoke of Patanjali, if we just look even at the eight limbs of yoga, the benefits even just within those eight limbs span every aspect of my life: from how I interact in the world, from my relationships in the world, my relationship with myself, to my relationships with others, to my physical health, to my mental health, to the calmness and stillness of the mind, to the opportunity of touching that state of pure awareness, of pure consciousness into the experience of oneness, love in the heart, not love of just one separate being over here and another separate being over there, but the love that through Dhyan, and then Samadhi, in which the lover, the beloved and the love become One. The meditator, the object of meditation and the act of meditation become One. And so, the benefits are on every level, from the most physical to the mental, the psychological, to the deepest, deepest spiritual benefits. You know, these days lastly, these days as we are suffering from so much, ranging from depression and anxiety, suicides, addictions, to problems in our society, whether it’s rising rates of divorce, whether it’s communal violence, whether it’s problems between nations, between cultures, between races, between religions, war, terrorism, whether it’s that which is happening with our environment, destruction, climate change. The core of all of these is this myth of separation, and so yoga as that which actually brings us the truth of Union, is actually the antidote to everything that ails us on every level today. So, the benefits are as infinite as the union to which we dive and bathe.
Nidhi: How beautiful. Very well explained. It’s kind of therapeutic hearing this. Mohanji, (I would like to know from you now) liberation, self -realization, enlightenment, samadhi, maha samadhi, what do they mean? Where do these feature in yoga and how can they be attained?
I’m asking all enlightened people, please enlighten us.
Shlloka: Mohanji’s mic is muted.
Nidhi: Mohanji you have to unmute your mic.
Mohanji: Yes, sure. Can you hear me?
That’s a very huge subject. In fact, I will try to bring it as simple as possible. Self-realization is nothing but realizing what is already sitting in you. It’s not anything from outside, so outside is only guidance. But, at some point in time, in the depth of silence, you realize what exactly is running your show, what is the only peaceful aspect of yourself or the only real aspect of yourself. Body is a shell and all the other faculties are just for experiencing existence. So, when at some point in time you realize that there is an atma tattva, the principle called soul which is running the show, that realization stabilizes at some point. First, it’s just an information. Somebody tells you, some books tell you, but that’s not your experience. When that becomes your experience, we call it enlightenment, self-realization. So that’s already sitting and everybody have the same ways of reaching. I mean, like Dr. Frawley just explained, there’re so many different paths to reach the same spot, same position. And we have to reach there some time, some point in time. So, this is that.
And samadhi has been explained in a very detailed way by Vivekananda as well. I usually like Vivekananda because he’s extremely practical. You know, no beating around the bush. I like direct stuff. So, he said there is savitarka samadhi and nirvitarka Samadhi. You have a desire, it needs fulfillment, you are in peace for some time. Then, it goes to savichara samadhi and nirvichara samadhi. That means you have a thought and the thought is also compelling, but thoughts are there. You see, even in nirvitarka samadhi you have a desire, but at some point in time you don’t need fulfillment, which means desire stands alone. And then it shifts to vichara, the thought. The thoughts happen, but the thoughts are not sufficiently powerful for activating a fulfillment. Then, it comes to a state where mind becomes still, because the thoughts are not enough, they do not have enough power to bring you forth. It usually says after nirvichara samadhi… (Nirvichara samdhi is nothing but a state where there are no activities in the mind), then you cannot go back, that’s what they say. That’s like a threshold. Then comes savikalpa samadhi: still you have an experience of the body. You might remember or you are reminded there is a body and there is an experience of the body, there is an experience of the identities. That means in a minimal state, the mind exists. Ego, which is the seat of the ownership of activity almost dies. Then, intellect which is analysis, almost extinct, but you are still aware of your existence. Then it comes to another state where you are not even aware of your body. Then, there is only one state, total dissolution. That is nirbija samadhi, not even the seed exists. That means you are totally dissolved. So, this is the states of samadhi.
Now, Mahasamadhi is a conscious exiting with consciousness or conscious exit of your body. That means you are already established in a state of complete dissolution, and then it’s just a matter of time you exit from the top and then you’re still there. That means there is no death. It’s only expansion. By the time you have become immortal, you have stabilized yourself, nothing outside. So, this is what I am saying. There is a world outside all the time, and when we interact with the world we are producing an identification, identity. That completely collapses. The outside world remains outside. Outside world is about places, people and materials. That has no value. And inside, you are fully occupied inside. That means, you have settled down inside on the reality. And when you settle down inside on the reality, you become one unit. That means, mind, intellect, ego, and body are in alignment. You are all completely settled inside. That’s the only place to settle down actually. All the external settlings are all just illusions, you know. For some time, to keep the body, no problem. But internally, when you settle down completely, and then the external world… Well, you can operate in any way you like, but then you are not that. That always comes, and any of the things outside stays outside, you are not carrying it home. So, in this level you are liberated at existence. While living, you are liberated. While leaving, you are definitely liberated. So, this is in nutshell the whole thing, because within this time I cannot explain more.
Nidhi: But very well put. Lovely words of wisdom. To all of you who’s joining in now, We are on ‘Amway presents International Day of Yoga’. Please do share this video as you watch, so that maximum people can be benefited. Amway’s International Day of Yoga powered by Ozone.
(Nidhu talking to Pundrik ji in Hindi) Pundrik ji, a common misnomer is that bhakti, aarti, chanting, going to the temples is considered religion by a lot of people, not yog. Bhakti yoga is also confused with religiosity. If you can explain the bhakti way of yoga and why it is the yogic process? (in Hindi)
Sri Pundrik Goswami: Namaskar. I am very sorry. So much technical problems. I’m in Vrindavan. So, lovely to see you Sadhviji, and Dr David also, so good to see you. And, I am worshiper of Mohan, so also good to see Mohanji. Nidhi ji and Shlloka ji thanks for inviting me again. (in Hindi about all the problems not getting solved) because Mohanji was talking about Samadhi, and when you reach to the state of Samadhi, definitely all the problems automatically are solved. As we were talking about the yoga, of course, one needs to understand that you consist of four aspects. When we say ‘you’ or ‘I’, there are four things there. Similarly, if you drive a car, car has a physical body, it has an engine, it has a driver, and then it also has a fuel. The four things are extremely required. If one of them is not there, you cannot drive the car. Even if you have a nice limousine, but then if doesn’t have a fuel, you just cannot go ahead. If you have a sporty body of a car, but the engine is of only, I would say of Maruti 800, nothing would happen. So, similarly the whole concept consists of four things. One is your physical body. Second, engine, is your mind. Driver is your intellect, and the fuel is your soul. So, I would say inclining all the fours, all the four aspects of life, this is what is considered to be as yoga. Putting them into one line, physical… Yoga, it doesn’t happen on the body, it happens through the body I would say. It starts through your body, but then, I would say, joining it and inclining your mind, then intellect, and then connecting it to the soul, and then ultimately to the supreme soul.
As you were talking about bhakti yoga, so, aarti or going to the temple… Definitely, in Bhagavad Gita, Krishna beautifully explained the whole chapter of bhakti yoga. And there are many explanations of bhakti yoga existing. It’s mostly, I would say, the most powerful aspect in your identity is your mind. Of course, all three are always changing. Body is always changing, your mind is also changing, and your intellect is also changing as soon as your experiences change. But your Atman, your soul, is always permanent and it is the same, it is the oneness state. But in those external parts, the mind is the most powerful. If you see the whole world now, it’s a game of mind. We are talking about mental health. Mind is the most powerful. Arjuna also says, ‘’Chanchalam hi manah Krishna pramaathi balavad dridham’’ (‘’For the mind is restless, turbulent, obstinate and very strong, O Krishna, and to subdue it, I think, is more difficult than controlling the wind.’’), and I so agree with that. That mana is so chanchal (turbulent). It is so Chanchal (turbulent). Even after gaining so much intellect, sometime your mind plays around with you.
So, devotion, bhakti yoga, devotion… If you just look at this word ‘devotion’, it consists of another beautiful word which we call as ‘emotions’. So, mind is full of emotions, when you play around with your emotions, and through some external aspects, when you connect your mind to the supreme soul externally, that’s how some bhakti yoga practices are happening. If you do aarti, through that aarti, through that mechanism, if you are connecting to your soul, and then, supreme soul, that aarti would become a yoga. Even if you are doing a specific asan, but you are not connected to that source, that asan will not be a yoga. It would just be an asan. So, yoga is similarly the connection, union, as Sadhvi ji said. I could just hear two, three words (I don’t know what everybody was saying), but as she beautifully said, Patanjali says, ,,yoganu sasanam’’, discipline. In bhakti yoga, there are so many disciplines. (yoga chithavratti Nirodaha) Patanjali also talks about it. So, bhakti yoga similarly says, ‘Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru mam evaisyasi satyam te pratijane priyo si me’ (‘’Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.’’- translation). Shri Krishna in Bhagavad, who is a Yogeshwara, who beautifully explained that through your mind, concentrate your mind, or offer your mind to me: ‘man mana bhava mad bhakto / mad yaji mam namaskuru’ (Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, offer obeisances and worship Me), because mind can control your intellect very easily. It is possible, but it is a little difficult for your intellect to control the mind. So, if you are interested in that field of yoga, then of course, bhakti yoga is for you.
Then, there are nine aspects of those bhakti yoga. Dr. Frawley was explaining about the different parts, but majorly there are, we call it, nine bhaktis. So, there are: sravaṇam, keerthanam, smaraṇam, paada sevanam, archanam, vandanam, daasyam, sakhyam, and atma nivedanam. These are the nine aspects of bhakti yogas.
So, it starts through listening, because ears are something which goes deep into you. You know, ear doesn’t know how to express. Your eyes know how to express also and how to take things inside. There are two ways when you look into the eyes. There are always two ways, you breathe in and breath out. Even mouth can sometime vomit or speak, and also mouth can also eat. But ear is one sense which doesn’t know how to express. That’s why in bhakti yoga sravanam, hearing or listening to who are the real bhakti yogi or the intellectuals, or the enlightened soul, that’s how the process starts. And I thank to this whole program because people are hearing. That’s the first thing: hearing about yoga, sravanam. So, we have an example of Parikshit, he is a king Parikshit who just heard and achieved that stage. He was able to bring his prana through all the chakras and could deliver himself to brahmarandhra.
Then, keerthanam. For keerthanam we have shukadeva, for smaranam we have prahalad. So there are different examples of all these aspects of bhakti. So, doing aarti or doing darshan is somehow one of the aspect of these nine parts of bhakti.
Nidhi: Awesome. (talking in Hindi)
Yoga sadhana is the only way to get liberated, Pundrik ji?
Sri Pundrik Goswami: Sorry, I cannot hear it properly.
Nidhi:Yoga sadhana is that the only way to get liberated?
Sri Pundrik Goswami: I would say, you don’t have to connect to words, personally my experiences sadhana (In Hindi) the one who is practicing , and yoga is a union. So, person who is practicing union. This is what is yoga sadhana.
Nidhi:I would like to ask this, Pundrik ji (in Hindi _ when someone is 100% devoted, people do something with utmost devotion) So, does that also means shedding the body, (in Hindi) cooking with all your heart, painting, writing… Is that also some kind of a yog or union if you do that with devotion, or is it different from sadhana?
Sri Pundrik Goswami: No, it isn’t. In bhakti yoga, everything can become sadhana. That’s why we cook so much and offer it to the God. We have ‘Chappan Bhog’, there is so much cooking happening here. You can cook and if you’re just connected to that supreme soul, so if you do it from the deepest core of your heart and not just for yourself. Devotion also means not just doing it for yourself. If you just have a bigger perspective, you are joining everybody with you and then ultimately to that supreme soul, you want to make somebody else happy, so that selfless attitude comes to you. That’s how bhakti starts. We have Surdas, Tulsidas, we have these kind of singers in bhakti yoga . So, the music is such a great medium in bhakti yoga. We have so much music.
(talk in Hindi)
Shlloka: Mohanji, my question to you is: You know, yoga changes the way of your being, because it is challenging our tendencies, challenging our karmic structure on the physical, mental, emotional, on the energy planes. So, when this unshackling or transcendence of karmic structure happens, the sense of self begins to loosen up. What I call as myself, my likes and dislikes, they begin to disintegrate or dismantle. So, if you can talk about karma and the role of yoga in overcoming karma?
Mohanji: The thrust of karma or the karmic path, as Pundrik ji also just explained right now… whatever is born must die. So, the whole span of life is defined by the flow of karma, in the linear way. But also, we should understand that there is a transition and transcendence also. Like Yoga Vasishta has said that there are parallel realities. Like when somebody asked Ramana Maharshi, “If I die now, in two years time, will I take a birth?” He said, “For sure. You can take a birth, but probably, by that time you will be seventy years old.” So that means, there are so many things happening parallelly and at the same time, the time and the space as we perceive it, in a linear way, has only relevance in this level where we look, means how we see or how we perceive. But, the existence is much more dimensional. That is why Maha Vishnu told the person who was meditating, “You don’t even understand illusion, then how would you understand the truth?” So illusion itself is so vast because time and space are interchangeable and expandable, contractible. So, we are existing in a large realm.
So, in the linear way, it’s very simple, you have a desire and you ask for fulfillment. Then, how do you come out of it? Because the moment you have a desire and you ask for fulfillment, then another desire comes, then another fulfillment. This is like a big trap. It’s an ego trap because we never get satisfied. We are always in a trap. Then what comes next is pretension, that we pretend to be happy. But are we really happy? The happiness happens only when we have nothing to do with the world outside. When we are so contented with the world inside and everything (that) happens outside becomes our expression, whether we like it or not, and that’s exactly what happens every day. But, the desires do not just get extinct like that; one leads to the other. But at some point in time awareness rises over it. Like Pundrik ji now just talked about bhakti yoga, when your focus is on a supreme entity like Lord Krishna or Shiva, when your full focus is on something which is very, very different in dimension, then automatically an expansion happens inside. That way detachment takes place automatically.
When I was practicing, I used to come to Himalayas very often and I thought that’s what’s going to help me. At one point in time, this question came, “You’re going to a place where there is peace, but you’re not taking it home. Peace stays there, but you are going away and then you are back to square one.” That was like a blow on my face. I was actually wasting my time looking for something in a place or in a particular situation. That’s the only time when I started looking at what exactly is silence. Like a wave, sound is coming out of silence and it goes back to silence. Silence is more permanent than sounds. I was in the world of sounds and then at some point in time I realized that that’s temporary, and then I started focusing on the silence. It takes time and these external things always pull you back. Because that’s habitual. You are habituated to the things outside. People, places, relationships, possessions, and positions, they are all taking you outside all the time. But at some point in time, you realize, “Oh, that’s not giving me permanent happiness.” But there is somebody who’s also happy when there is nothing outside at the time of sleep. When you wake up, you feel happy. And I had no gadgets, I had nothing outside to make me happy. So, this was a very clear feeling for me, or expression, or inspiration for me to stabilize inside. Then, after that, you become a magnet, means alignment happens automatically.
So, to sum it up, what I am saying is: no shortcut. Because we have created patterns over lifetimes. Sitting here now, we are a bundle of patterns and these patterns won’t just go away, and we won’t allow them to go away. You know, we are very, very reluctant to leave them, because they are binding us and we bind them. It’s mutual. Like what happens now, there’s corona situation. So many people, as Sadhviji said, went into depression, went into suicidal feelings, why? Because of the over-dependency on things outside. But this was a God given chance to connect within. You can’t go anywhere and you can’t have all those usual stuff. That time, what would you do? God gave you a chance to really, really go deep inside, and explore, and connect to the silence within. Once that happens, all the other things fall off, because then the illusions completely move. Otherwise, we are always in a kind of linear world and focused on our own pleasures, and we think that this is gonna be giving us happiness, and we are still not satisfied. So, in this time, awareness is the key. You’ve got to be aware that what are you, how you are and connect deep within all the time. Just be aware. Activity is not the solution here. Awareness is the solution. Even while you are active, be aware. Like yesterday, there was a call from America and they asked, “Can you give me something short and sweet to do?” I said, “Just be aware of your talk. Just be aware what you are speaking and what you are acting. This is yoga for you.” So, they said, “That’s all? That is very simple” I said, “Not very simple. It’s not easy to follow, because automatically unconsciousness takes over.” If we just connect to ourselves, we achieve a lot.
Nidhi: Very rightly put, Mohanji. Profound words, those as usual. Dr. Frawley, you are also a vedic astrologer. Stars and planets may have an impact on regular individuals. When we talk of yogis or individuals who practice yoga, they are transcending their karma, their impressions and their tendencies. From what I know since remote ages, astrologers or jyotish never looked at the birth charts of yogis because they knew that it was their path of challenging tendencies of karma. So, does astrology impact yogis or a person with a yogic way of life?
Dr Frawley: Yes. In fact, we find that many great yogis used astrology and were astrologers; Paramahansa Yogananda and his guru. I even found recently some of the astrological teachings coming out of Sri Aurobindo. And jyotish is a vedanga. It’s an integral part of the vedic system, and it’s employed at all the ashrams and it has several levels of application. Even beyond any personal karma, it’s used for timing of all the rituals, all the festivals, Krishna Janmashtami, Rama Navami, all these things. What are the favorable times going on? We live in an ocean of celestial influences that are dispensed through the stars and that affect us on a daily basis. We have our panchanga for looking at that. We cannot avoid that any more than we can avoid the weather or anything else.
But there is also our personal jyotish. Essentially, we as human beings are composed of these or connected to these three things: the body, mind and consciousness. They have all their different depths and layers. Body and mind are connected to karma and products of time. We live in time and space.
Consciousness, Paramatma is beyond all karma. If you want to go transcend your karma, you can do it at any moment. Just move into that Paramatma state. Not so easy to do, because the karmas are there working on the body and the mind at every moment. If we do moment by moment awareness, which is real astrology and real yoga, then we also move beyond time and space. Now, each one of us has a birth chart, this kundali that shows us… It’s essentially, I call it a kind of the DNA of the soul. It is showing your karma. It is showing your samsakaras, in each particular life. And in that regard, each individual is different. We have our different moments of time or different dashas or planetary periods, our transits, our potentials. It’s very important to understand that, just as we need to understand how our DNA works and each one of us is different. Also, as we say doshas, gunas, karmas, but karmas being the most important. So, not everyone is going to be a sannyasin, not everyone is going to be an artist. Different yogas will be there for different people, different Ishta Devatas, relative to the charts and all of that. So, we have to honor the jyotish, and we have to see what the jyotish provides. All the great Gurus would use the jyotish as helping to understand the adhikara or the potential of the student, and the favorability of the time for certain sadhanas. Some people have their dharmic periods: fifth house, 5th Lord later on in life, or they go to Ketu in the 12th house later on in life, or earlier on in life; we can see those things. We have to understand how our karma is ripening, and the jyotish helps us do that. But jyotish helps us understand dharma, artha, kama, and moksha. Moksha of course transcends all of that, but we also have to deal with dharma, artha and karma.
We also have a mundane astrology where we look at what is going on in the world. There’s been this very powerful Kala Sarpa Yoga, with Ketu near the galactic center and Rahu on the other point, that has been bringing about a lot of strong collective karma (that) is going on for humanity. We also look at the yugadi chart for that particular purpose, so we can understand a lot about what’s going on in the world. Different individuals, different countries will be affected differently. But we have individual karma and collective karma, so it’s very important to understand your birth chart, or have it read properly, so you can understand your karmic potentials in life.
At the same time, recognize your inner self is beyond karma, but getting to that inner self, you have to move through karma. You have to transcend karma. Karma yoga is a great way to transcend karma. All yoga is a way to transcend karma. Purusha is beyond karma, but unless we do the nirodha of the mind, we are in the karmas of the mind, which connects us to the karmas of the body. If we dis-identify with the mind, which is the real practice of yoga, move into that inner awareness, we become everything, we become all time and space. As Upanishads said, the entire universe dwells within you; the dahara akasha, the small space within the heart, the guha. You can go there. You go there in deep sleep, but we need to go there consciously, wakefully, moment by moment. Yes, we can transcend karma, but body and mind will continue to work in the field of karma. Humanity will be in the field of karma. We have to understand how that karma works and know how to transcend it, and optimize it in various ways to improve the collective karma and also to help everyone transcend karma.
(Niddhi speaks in Hindi)
Shlloka: Sadhvi ji, if you can tell us about the eight limbs of yoga as done by Patanjali, and I ask this because many participants come to us saying that, you know, we want to learn yoga. They feel that yoga is something just for physical well-being, like we discussed. When you look at peace of mind or stress, it is meditation. And you, in one of your videos, gave a very beautiful analogy on how you can’t start the construction from the third floor, you have to start from ground zero, or even under. So, how to do dhyana or meditation if all the steps below aren’t met because one has to create the right conditions for dhyana to happen. If you could tell us about that?
Sadhviji: Absolutely. The foundation of yog is yam and niyam. Without yam and niyam, we can’t move on. You can be as flexible, as strong, as acrobatic as you want, but if you haven’t actually brought yam and niyam into your life and are really living that, then it’s not a yog; what you are doing. Then it’s just an exercise. Then it’s just acrobatics.
The foundation of a yogic path is yam, which I’ll speak about in a minute, but I wanted just to mention even before I start talking about it, that they’re not hierarchical. We think sometimes that we’re moving through the eight limbs as though we were going from being a male clerk to being the CEO of a company, al though we were getting higher and higher, and leaving behind the lower levels. By the time you become the CEO of a company or the president of a company, you’re no longer delivering the mail, you’re no longer washing the windows. But as we enter the higher aspects of the eight limbs, we’re not letting go of the foundation. So, it’s not dhyan or samadhi minus ahimsa and satya. It’s not that somehow, I’ve done that, been there, accomplished that. If my life isn’t infused with, filled with, rooted in every minute and every moment in yam and niyam, then whatever else I do, regardless of what I’m doing with my body and my muscles, or my breath, it isn’t yoga.
And, as you said so beautifully, that we speak about all the time: yeah, you can’t start building a building on the third floor, but also you don’t stop at the third floor. And so, we also have the opposite difficulty which is that a lot of people get to us and they think that is as high as I need to go, or maybe they bring a little bit of pranayama and they think that’s as high as I need to go. But it’s really important that they realize that just as it can’t be over if it’s not rooted in non-violence, in truthfulness, and non-stealing, and non-hoarding, and all of the yam and niyam. In the same way, if I am not moving toward samadhi, if whatever I’m doing with my body, with my muscles, with my bones, with my breath, if it’s not being done with the awareness that I’m heading into ultimate union, then again I’m not allowing myself to really benefit from the fullness of yoga.
But let’s go back for just a moment because I want to circle back to yam and niyam. Because today, so many of the speakers, we’ve all been speaking about that which is afflicting us today, from corona to environmental destruction, to depression, to suicide, to war, to violence, all of that. Yam and niyam give us a way of living that is both essential to a yogic life, you could think of it as sort of the ten commandments of a dharmic life, the ten commandments of a yogic life, but it also forms really the foundation for having peaceful societies. You know, I do a lot of work with the United Nations and one of the things that I share so frequently there is that even though, yes, yoga has come out of Sanatana Dharma, has come out of this religious tradition, the teachings of a yoga actually are those that if we embodied them, and I don’t even mean all of the depth philosophy I mean even just simply, yam and niyam, you actually would achieve every one of the sustainable development goals. Billions of dollars are spent all across the world trying to figure out how to ease global hunger, how to deal with our world hunger shortage, our global hunger shortage, and how to deal with our global land shortage, our global water shortage. When really what we are suffering from most at the core is a global consciousness shortage. And if we literally adopt it, just for the beginning, if we said, okay, ahimsa, satya, astey, aparigraha… Even just the first four, even forget brahmachariya for a moment, forget all of the niyam for the moment, if we just took the first four of the yam, we literally could address all 30 of our goals. We literally could address all 17 of the UN sustainable development goals, all of the indicators of all of them, all of the dozens of goals that we have in this nation. So many of our countries have… I mean, wherever we are looking at lists of goals, every one of them could be addressed just by beginning to embrace these eight limbs of yoga. And that for me, moving through the world is so core. And then yes, should you feel inclined, inspired to accept that extraordinary invitation that the universe has given us to wake up, to actually fulfill purpose of our life by knowing ourselves, by knowing God, by experiencing samadhi, fantastic. Keep going, but even if you own goal is just to be a bit of an asset here on planet earth, just to make a bit of a difference, in the lives of people around you; you literally could do that just in the first few of the yamas given to us by Patanjali.
Nidhi: How beautiful was that.
(talking in Hindi addressing Pundrikji and Mohanji)
(addressing Mohanji) Happiness because of external situations is transient and fragmented (in Hindi…what are we teaching our sons?) How we are indoctrinating our children about good education, careers, job, wealth is going to make them happy and all of it. Once they achieve them that does not seem to be the answer. (in Hindi – What would you like to say)
Mohanji: Well, talking about education, we can talk a lot. Actually, we are creating bricks on the wall, right? Most of the education system is creating mediocrity. We are not learning about ourselves. We are learning a skill for the world, to handle the world. So, that actually detaches a person from themselves. This is the main problem with today’s education.
And, I fully agree with Sadhviji who just said that adding value to the society; this is the fundamental of Mohanji Foundation as well. If that is not done, life is not worth it. How do you add value? You can only give what you have. Share what you have. Maybe you have time to share, maybe you have skills to share, maybe you have love to share. What you have in abundance, that is what you share. That’s the richness which we must cultivate in children today.
Now, this COVID situation has taught us one important thing. Most of the things which people are dependent on in this world became not essential. So, this was actually a reminder, including travelling, including going to malls and shopping blindly; all those things became non-essential. So, this was a real big reminder of our actual cause of happiness or the boundaries. This is a very good time to restart, reinvent ourselves and to bring this awareness to the people, which we are doing actually in our own way. But the main thing we say is that, what can you deliver to the world today? What can you give to this world today? Within your own capacities, within your own boundaries, and just do that, so that you do not fall into the levels of depression, the denials. (the so called denials, we don’t need them but still many people are depressed) And also the social situation has actually changed. Two people living in a house who do not like to see each other are forced to live and see each other. Big calamity, bomb blast in the houses, you know. (laughs) So, those kinds of situations where you have got to build a purpose, a purpose which is much higher in nature, and it should be based on what we give to this world.
And when we are fully settled in ourselves, we become like bright lights, huge magnets. And that’s the brightness we give to this world. Our consistency and integrity are the right message for the world. Not what we talk, but what we are. That is our message. So, people are not stupid, you know. They know what we talk about, people are very intelligent. (So, our integrity and consistency.) And we should believe in what we say, or we should live by example, lead by example. That is the right message today. I believe that, I hope that this was the question, right Nidhi ji?
Nidhi: Yes, yes, absolutely. You have answered it so beautifully.
Mohanji: Because sometimes I deviate from the question, you know.
Nidhi: No, no, bang on, you were spot on, Sir. I would like Pundrikji to add to this.
(Nidhi talking in Hindi with Sri Pundrik Goswami.)
Sri Pundrik Goswami: (talks in Hindi)
There are four aspects of life, which we call dharma, artha, kama and moksha, as Dr. David was also talking about these four Purusharthas. So, an education should be there to avail you, and give you education about all these four aspects. (speaks in Hindi).
As the things were happening, whatever the text books have been given… There is so much to manage in this country. I would say this is only… I am the second generation born in free India. My grandfather was also born in a dependent India. There is so much to do. Education is the first thing, I would say. (talks in Hindi) Of course, there are many institutions, and even our two daughters are also going to the school. So, I could see that there are, from last few years fortunately, I could see that some entry of yoga is there. Still, on the level of, I would say, physical exercise. But there are some institutions who are promoting at least Surya Namaskar, and since then this yoga day has come up, this awareness is much more spread out. But I would say, of course, foundation (Talking in Hindi)
Similarly, I would say, yoga should be presented in a such a way that if we ask all the students before their examinations, if we ask them to do bit of a meditation, so I think they are much more expressing in what they want to write. So, similarly very, very simply, I would say.(talking in Hindi)
Just like, if we pray in the morning… Every school has their prayers. So, before coming to an examination, it’s just one small thing (that) can be added, maybe by few institutions. I tried. I tried to do it. I told few institutions and they are trying to practice that. When they call their students, especially six standard or eight standard, and when they ask them to start their examination, before that, they ask them to do a bit of a meditation, just to calm their head and just to be easy whatever they can, they would like to express. There’s so much pressure there, and then the things become a little easy I would say with that. So, these are simple things which… Just like these, if we inculcate some of these practices with our regular education, then (in Hindi. They will develop the taste for it) then definitely it can take you to the unlimited levels, and I would say to dharana, and then to samadhi of course, and to other states beyond your body.
Nidhi: ..and break karma. I would like to thank you Sadhvi ji. I just got a message that you have to leave. (Talking in Hindi) Any last thing you’d like to say before leaving, please do that. We would be honored once again, on this IDY celebration. Thank you so much once again for joining us.
Sadhvi Ji: It’s been really a beautiful joy and a beautiful honor and I am so sorry I have to get off. But we are actually hosting an international yoga day event that’s starting in just a few minutes, so the tech team has to switch everything over.
But, lastly I wanted to say it was so beautiful listening to how Pundrik ji was talking about the importance of education, because that really is what we need today. Too much of our education, both in the families, as well as in the schools, is rooted on fitting children into our mold. It is rooted in actually minimizing and squashing their own blossoming of self. I think that if we can bring the teachings of yog into a system of education, in which children are really being given the awareness that who they are is divine. It’s not about who they are is their number in the class, or is the grade they got in the exam. That their worthiness is not rooted in what ranking they have, but actually that their worthiness is rooted in the fact that they are divine. And yes, of course, they must study sincerely and do the best they can, but not because it determines who they are, so that we don’t end up with children who move through the world believing that they are the grades they get, or they are how much they make, or they are their position, or they are their career. And really bring about a system with youth of connecting them to themselves, to their heart, connecting them to love and truth, such that out of that soil, they actually blossom with courage to really become tools in the hands of the divine. That’s gonna give them skills that I think are so much more important than all of the math, and science, and whatever we’re trying to drill into their brains. If we actually just give them the courage to actually channel the flow of the divine through them, they’re gonna bring about a today and a tomorrow of light, of oneness, of love, of truth, and of sustainability.
So, thank you so much for what you are doing in education, and thank you so much to all of you. And so much love and deep, deep respects to all of you. And a beautiful happy International Yoga Day.
Nidhi: Thank you so much for joining us, Sadhvi ji. So privileged. Next question to Dr. Frawley.
Shlloka: This is an extension on the topic, on children and yoga. The ego loves rationalization. You know, it loves intellectualization, being loved, recognized, respected. Everyone is power-hungry. They want to get into the civil services, they want to get into niche professions, because it is about power, it is about recognition. And this is so unfortunate because we live in a knowledge economy which is fostering precisely this. There is no cultivation of intuition. There is no cultivation of insight. Everything is so logic and intellect driven. So, in our country, children are lured into studying subjects like the sciences, or the engineering, because of these reasons. Even in the utilitarian world outside, these become very lucrative. However, our traditional sciences like ayurveda, siddha, classical yoga, dance, martial arts, they’re considered to be fringe careers in society and are unfortunately dying a slow death. So, if you can talk about the importance of these fields to the parents who are watching this episode today?
David Frawley: Namaste. Yes. I want to bring up a kind of a more integral point. I do have to leave shortly also, I have a program with the Saudi Arabia Yoga Day. But the important thing I would like to bring up for education is the most important thing in education for children is developing the power of attention, Dharana Shakti, power of attention, awareness. We have created the society where we’re cultivating millisecond awareness, where the mind is constantly distracted and disturbed. We need to have that attention and that’s what yoga teaches us. Unless we have a power of attention, it’s like your mind, your body has no muscular power. The mind has no muscular power. You can’t hold an idea, you can’t learn anything. You can’t understand anything deeply. So, we must teach children to cultivate that flame of attention, that deeper agni, the buddhi. It’s not just a question of information. It’s not just a question of being exposed to things. It is a question of cultivating an inner ability, a receptivity that goes beyond mere words, names, forms, numbers, tests, that allows us to be present, that allows us to give full attention to what we do. If we can give full attention to what we do, then we can succeed in everything. Then, we can learn everything. So let us bring that yogic dimension of not simply meditation, but concentration or enough focus, one-pointed mind. And then, if the whole society has that, the world will be transformed.
So, thank you again for inviting me to this wonderful event. I was most pleased with the level of discussion by all these speakers. Very deep secrets of yoga are there, so let us share that with everyone. Let us take this message forward through International Yoga Day to all the communities, to the children, and to every aspect of life. That all life be yoga, all life be sadhana. Let us be aware of yoga at every moment as our unity with all. Hari Om.
Nidhi: Thank you so much many times for joining us Dr. Frawley. Honored, indebted to you for your presence and for teaching us that every adversity is indeed a stepping stone. Thank you so much for joining us. Namaste.
Shlloka: Nidhi ji, we are almost out of time. I think we have to wind up.
Nidhi: Yes. In 60 sec I would like to ask you, Pundrik ji, and to you Mohanji, (talks in Hindi)
(Pundrikji talks in Hindi)
(Nidhi talks to Mohanji in Hindi about how will the next yoga day be celebrated and his vision)
Mohanji: First of all, I agree with Pundrik ji, so I am not repeating it. I think one of the best thing happened to India – Bharat is Yoga Day. Yoga Day is a very, very substantial thing and it’s very, very important for our stability. And also, like that the other things like vastu, ayurveda, and all the other things as well. But, yoga has actually a big significance for the future. From this point, where we are standing towards future, two things are very important. One is the extreme flexibility, because we have no idea what’s coming ahead, you know. Even if you are the greatest of astrologer, but sometimes you do not know what’s there. Because this kind of a scenario nobody expected. So we are forced to be flexible. So, flexibility is number one, and self-acceptance is another. That means, we should not blame ourselves, we should not blame the society. This is collective consciousness which has created this pandemic all over the world. All the people are indoors. I mean they are all feeling the same thing, stifling times. So, this time self-acceptance is very important. Accept yourself with all the weaknesses, strengths and stuff. Plus, accept the society and how it moves. Just remain flexible. That is why yoga, flexibility; it all has got great relevance. And thank you for inviting me, before I go. Thank you for arranging this program.
Nidhi: Thank you so much for your wisdom and your insights, all. We were literally overwhelmed today to have such pearls of wisdom. Our deepest and warmest gratitude goes out to all of you, to our partners Amway for making this session IN Yoga at IDY 20 see the light of day.
Our special shoutout to Union and Red Carpet Entertainers, Nehru center, The High Commission of India, Ministry of Ayush, FSSAI, ISH Rights Foundation. This program was powered by Ozone Organic AdvantAge and by the INO. Thank you so much for supporting us.
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1. Why do we need peace in our lives and in society?
It’s very simple. The need for peace is to experience life completely. When it is the other way round, if it is a war situation or a situation of calamity, we can’t experience, because we are scattered. Peace brings us together. Peace means alignment. So the need for peace means the need for alignment. The very reason for taking birth on earth is to experience the many things that we are experiencing in life. That’s the very reason for taking birth. However, to experience it, we need to be together. If our mind is scattered, if our intellect and ego are scattered, we can’t experience (life), we experience it only partially. So the very need for peace is that we experience life completely and it is our birthright.
2. How can someone find their purpose in life, I’m talking about the youth, those who are between the ages of 14 and 24.
We all have our inclinations; we call it vasanas; the driving force is vasanas. We all have our unique vasanas. All our life we are chasing the fulfillment of our vasanas or tendencies. As a child, we have certain vasanas, certain fulfillments, when we become a young adult and then an adult, at each time the vasanas drive us forward. Desires and vasanas are mixed together.
So the purpose is very simple, the purpose of existence is what you are experiencing every moment. But you can have a goal. Goal and purpose are sometimes different. The goal means you set a target for yourself, a destination so to speak, just like you program in your car, where you would like to go. Similarly, you can have a destination clearly defined, so that all your activities will be towards that. That’s fine. But what drives you? We are all bundles of inclinations, tendencies, that is what we are, we cannot extract ourselves from that. So the purpose is to exhaust and fulfil all these tendencies and inclinations and desires, all put together. It’s like a mixed box, a cocktail. So this is what we are here for. And this what we are doing, our entire life. All our life, we are going after fulfilment, of some kind.
Sometimes we get misled, we may think that by making a lot of money we will be fulfilled; maybe not, because that becomes more and more of an initiative or an inspiration for more money. And what happens is, people, make a lot of money, but they fail to be fulfilled because sometimes money cannot give you that. Satisfaction also is in enjoying the wealth and the time. It’s all happiness, we are all seeking happiness and peace and such things. So in that mode, we should live in that moment fully, completely, not distracted. When we are in that moment, we will be completely and fully satisfied. That’s a life of contentment. Contentment is important. I always call contentment, the factor of contentment as a success, not the wealth or the things you earn. Are you contented every moment with what you have? Then, you are successful.
You can see some very, very poor people; but they’re very contented. They’re happy with their life. And you can see very rich people, totally discontented, with no contentment. So is that success? Success is a question mark here.
3. When we are young, where to go and how to choose a career can be confusing. With your experiences, can you help us? How can one choose a career and be happy and satisfied?
Choosing a career is very simple. We have our nature; certain things which we like, as I said earlier, inclinations and tendencies. Our nature is our guideline, like the outfit you’re wearing. If you get an outfit two sizes smaller, you can’t wear it comfortably. Like that, we have to strictly follow our nature, what are we comfortable with? And what makes us happy, and is effortless.
You may choose a subject that takes a lot of effort, or people tell you to choose a subject for the sake of a job or the sake of success in life, etc; people equate success with money. People say a job with good money. You know, sometimes what happens is that there is only sorrow. This is because first of all, it’s not in your nature. What you want is something that suits your nature, but you can’t do it. Then all your life you’re dragging your feet. Instead, the right job for you is one which is your nature and is suitable for you. What that is, only you can tell, because nobody else can guide you.
Some people like engineering because they love to be an engineer. If somebody joins engineering because it fetches more money, they may fail in life. They may succeed in the examination, but they may fail in life. For the youth, I always say, strictly follow your nature, your inclination. You ask a fish to climb a tree, and when the fish fails because it can’t climb a tree, we call the fish a failure. That is how society works. Likewise, you don’t have to teach a fish to swim, it knows how to swim. Like that, everybody has their nature and they are very, complete and comfortable in their nature. So look at your own nature. What is your nature? Based on that, you select a subject and choose a career. You will be successful because you love to do it. Not that you have to do it. There’s a difference here, doing something which you love to do.
It even applies to a relationship. Some relationships bring you a lot of pressure and but some relationships are a big pleasure for you. So the pressure and the pleasure, this equation, and it’s all connected to your nature. You get connected to somebody and that relationship will be so beautiful. It’s like a smooth breeze. But in some relationships, there is always a problem, so that means it’s not suitable for you. Education, relationships, and life, you look at your nature and choose accordingly.
4. Once I decide I would like to go ahead with a dream, but my parents may not want me to go ahead with this dream, they want me to be an engineer, doctor or something else. How do I tackle these issues, how do I justify what I’m doing is right?
Yes, sometimes you have to do something else; that means, you become choiceless, this happens in life. Everything in life is not what we choose. Sometimes you have to do some things which are not your choice. Then you should not leave your dream, you should not leave your basic nature, start a hobby on the side. For example, if you like music and like singing, even when you are studying or doing something else not connected to music, you can still have music as a passion, as enjoyment, and have your natural ability or your natural flow in that subject. It will help you to balance your life. Otherwise, if you focus on, or are completely bound to things that you don’t like to do, then you will have a big pressure on you and you will become older faster. So my suggestion always is that you should have a hobby, which is what you love to do, parallel to what you have to do. If you carry this forward together, you will be peaceful.
5. How do I convince my parents that I want to go ahead with my own dreams?
The only way you can convince your parents is only through your success. There is no other way. Only through your success, you can convince and sometimes it takes time. You know, when I started moving around and started talking, people called me crazy, because I was doing something else. I had a different job. I loved that job, in the shipping business; I loved it. But I moved to a completely different track. People said he’s crazy. You need to prove yourself to society, parents, and others. You need to prove, otherwise, they can’t see. But that’s because they are security-oriented. They want you to be secure. They don’t want you to take chances.
This is natural because nobody would want to see their children stranded or on an uncertain path. So they guide them to the beaten tracks, the tracks which are travelled by people before so that you know the dimensions of the track. They push the children towards that track because it’s known, it’s comfortable and there is predictability there. But if we have to really prove ourselves, we have to strive for it. We should have that fire while walking the path, which you are guided to walk. At the same time, you should follow what you love to do. With both together, you can prove, but in life, you cannot prove right away, you have to live it. You have to walk through it, live it, perfect it, only then people start seeing. But you must really believe in what you do; so, first of all, you should believe in yourself. You should be sure that you will do this in life, whatever you love to do. Secondly, you should believe in nature, which will help you to accomplish what you want.
There should be honesty and truthfulness in that which you love to do. First of all, believe in nature for time makes success, not that you make success. You can only do or put in the best effort. Put the best effort, but only time will tell about success. So you should not worry about what will happen, don’t focus on the result. Instead, focus on the activity, consistently. And even if you fail ten times, don’t stop, keep going, keep going and then comes success. So sometimes you have to really, really, really work hard before you actually reach success. You have to believe in yourself.
You should have purity in thoughts, purity in concept, and purity in seeing success happening. It will take time. There’s nothing called instant success. It doesn’t work that way.
6. You have spoken very important words. Within that time when I haven’t received success, there is pressure from my parents, surroundings and society. How do I decrease or minimise the pressure, tension and negative energies?
The pressure is part of existence. If we live for about 80 years there will be some kind of pressure or some kind of disturbance all the time. When there is a positive there is a negative, this is part of existence, both travel together. It’s not always that things can be positive, and you can always be positive.
What we need to do is that we must also connect to ourselves. When you are deeply connected to yourself, then you will be confident that whatever you have to do for a living, whatever you have to learn, you will, until you can walk on your own. So, in the initial days, where you need help from the parents when you need help from others, you do what they ask you to do because sometimes you don’t have many options. But don’t let go of the dream, let it be within you so that the spark in you remains and it will wait for fulfilment or realization.
There have been extraordinary people like Sachin Tendulkar, he started playing cricket from very early days and he proved himself when he was in his teens. There have been such prodigies. But remember, the only investment which is really important is to take time to connect with yourself; you will have success. Success is not rocket science. The goal needs to be perfect. If you do not have a vision you can’t have success. Vision means how do you see yourself in the future? You should actually visualize yourself as you would like yourself to be seen. Then you can walk, take a bicycle, a car, or any other mode of transportation, but you will reach the destination.
You start with what is available, and then you increase or add more. You will find that all successful people have started their life against many obstacles. Against all odds, they kept the vision and focus very clear; but it takes time. If you look at them, all of them found success possibly, after 40 or 50 years because they had to work hard to reach there. They believed in themselves and all the people who left their mark on earth have believed in their project or their vision and goal. So, vision is very important and determination is even more important. Iccha shakti (will power or determination), is very important and nothing should stop you. People may say this is not right or people may not approve of you or may not accept you, maybe they will reject you also. Still, we move on, because if we believe in ourselves, nothing can stop us.
7. How can someone motivate themselves to do what they like?
Motivation should be what you want to achieve in life, it should be self-inspiration. Don’t expect inspiration from other people. Don’t expect everybody to understand you, recognize you, and accept you. But what you can always do is believe in yourself and believe in your project or what you want to do in life. That means your goal. That should be the motivation, not anybody’s opinion because people can have any opinion about you. It may be a good opinion or a bad opinion. But how does that matter if we trust in ourselves? If we are truthful if we are honest, we do not betray anybody, we do not cheat or steal, we have nothing to worry. If we try to do something through negative ways, we have every reason to worry because nature will not support you anymore. When you do things positively without any selfish interest when your attitude is selflessness and you have a larger vision, which is also noble, then nature will support you; then the environment will also support you. Otherwise, it’s very difficult. Many people have very selfish dreams, to achieve a house, or make a factory for earning money, and all these things. By the time they earn a lot of money, they are already sick, and they spend all the money in the hospital. This is how sometimes the cycle works. So we have to be very careful. We need to understand that for walking on this earth we must pay, we must give rent.
What rent can we give? Selfless service. Help other people and hold hands with people. When you’re walking on this earth, you should be walking for the sake of the world, not only for yourself. Of course, you can eat, drink and sleep, there’s no problem. But then you need to walk for the sake of humanity, for the sake of the world. Then the whole world will support you, the world will look after for you. That is exactly how success stabilizes.
8. When we decide to do something great in our lives and don’t receive the desired results, we have a lot of negative energy in our minds and a lot of negativity in our hearts. How do we minimise it?
As I said, you can’t avoid negativity. That is nature, and also other people will give it to you. Even if it is a journey in the spiritual path, people tell a lot of stories – “Oh, that is not good. This is not good. This path is not good. This Guru is not good.” Everybody confuses everybody.
These are all opinions of people, opinions related to fears, opinions related to concepts, opinions related to their phobias, prejudices; they are going to give us many different things. But do we have to buy it? Our job is to ensure that nothing enters our system, our focus remains clear, and only we can do it. When we are really sure about what we want in life, nobody can stop us. Then that will be an inspiration. Many people have discouraged me. Oh, don’t go out and do these things, that people are crazy. Sometimes they malign you, at times they character assassinate you, talk badly about you. People say all these things -why do you waste your time, you are a professional; you can get your salary from a company.
People talk like this, but if you buy fears, you can’t discard them. Many times you buy all this negativity from society, just like you buy a lot of things you don’t want from the market. What do you do when you bring them home? You can’t discard them. You don’t know what to do. It’s like that. When you attract a lot of fears, a lot of prejudices from people, and you buy them and you believe in them, then you can’t really succeed because then your own bank balance will be this. What I mean is there will be clutter in your own mind. And clutter means a lack of clarity. So you need to be very clear that none of these things touches you.
You should always make sure that nothing touches you. You should be focused on a pure path; the intention should be very, very pure. The intention should never be some selfish interest, if it is, it will not work. The intention should be pure, and the activity should be positive. If you firmly stick to that, you don’t have to worry about negativity.
Let the negativity happen. Like Winston Churchill said, if you start throwing stones at all the dogs that bark on your way, you can never reach your destination. So there will be obstacles and obstructions. But we keep going. And that’s exactly it. People have tried their best to topple me many times, but I’m still surviving. I keep going because nature helps me. The world helps me, Existence helps me. That’s how we are moving and the right people will come to you; they never leave you. And the people who come with expectations, and try to take something away from you, don’t stay. They leave whether they get it or not. But those who truly care for you, those who really love you, they never judge you. They support you. They stay with you. They stand with you. Those people are your responsibility also. You must take care of them. So this is how you build a world or a large family; a family of people who are really united; they have integrity, and they are powerful. And they stand by you, whatever happens. Even if the whole world speaks poorly about you, they stand by you. With such people, you can build something great in this world. This will not happen in one day. You have to kiss many frogs before you get a prince. So you must be ready.
9. How can someone purify himself?
Purifying yourself is very simple, introspection. Ask yourself, are my intentions pure. First is intention. Secondly, introspect on- are all my actions pure? Are they selfless or selfish? These are two things. If they are selfless, you’re on the right track. If they’re selfish, you’re on the wrong track. It is that simple! How much selfishness do you have within you? To that extent, you are going down on the wrong track. Wrong track means, that track doesn’t have or will not have much life. You will have some success, but it will not last. Eventually, failures will come. Those who attain or achieve things through wrong ways or by walking down the wrong paths, such as, by disturbing people, betraying or cheating people, stealing or abusing, whatever they amass, they will not be able to use easily because there is a lot of guilt in it. But if it’s pure money coming out of selflessness, good intention, pure intention, activity with purity, if that happens, then it provides good energy in your house. It is not just for you, all those who are associated with you will have a great life ahead. So what we should focus on is, to ensure that zero selfishness exists in our activity, in our life, in our mission.
There should be zero negativity in our intention. No negativity and negativity means selfishness. Even if you get an opportunity to cheat somebody, never take it. If somebody says that you can do this, nobody will see it, don’t do it because whatever affects your conscience is very, very important. Conscience is your guard, protecting guard, protecting armour for your own self, your own stability.
Never, never, never do anything against your conscience. Conscience should be very clear, and for conscience to be clear, your activity should be pure. This is a very good test. You can do it to yourself – is your conscience compromised? If your conscience is compromised, don’t enter there. I mean conscience, not consciousness. Don’t do that job. If your conscience is intact, your activity is good. That means it is selfless. That means the activity is honest, compassionate, and kind. Such activities will always enhance the strength of your conscience.
10. Is there a connection between success, love and relationship?
All relationships are experiences. We have multiple relationships in a lifetime. They are all giving us certain flavours in life. They’re all experiences. Love is our nature. Love is the basis of our existence. Love is not something that we cultivate; we have it. It’s like a realization, self-realization. Self is already existing. At a certain point in time you realize that self, that’s what we call self-realization. Not that something is coming from outside. Self, or the soul, is already existing, inside. Like that, love is already existing, inside.
And how love gets eclipsed is when the other emotions come, like anger, hatred, jealousy, revenge. All this negativity will pull you down. They are negative, draining emotions. So, emotions that drain us, come in and overlap the love, but love still remains love and will never be lost.
The love that we mostly are talking about on social grounds is between a man and a woman. But that’s one part of it. There is much more to it. There are a father and child love, the mother and child love; we have so many relationships without expectations. They are all based on unconditional love.
And there are so many other relationships, for example, our connection to the air, the oxygen that we breathe; there is a love in it. Nature loves us, that’s why we have oxygen, otherwise, we’ll be dead. And like that everything has love involved in it. Love should be seen from a much larger perspective. As regards relationships, they change. With our life, it changes right from childhood till death, relationships change, the flavours change and we have different experiences. At each stage we have different flavours and experiences; this is all part of life. So relationships are our experiences of being human beings, of being human. All the experiences are connected with multiple relationships. And I would say that you experience every relationship because that’s all part of your existence. And also in a relationship, there should be a deep element of respect. We should respect relationships. We should appreciate relationships. We should honour relationships so that each relationship will be pure and kind. Otherwise, if we try to take relationships for granted, if we take a relationship as a nuisance, then what happens is there are a lot of conflicts, and the conflicts leave scars, and those scars sometimes take time to heal. Instead, we could appreciate; even if there is an enemy you appreciate because that man became eligible to be your enemy. As you might know, everything is based on eligibility. All things in life come with eligibility. So that person, an enemy, became eligible to be your enemy, good enough. Everything is fine. We experience certain flavours even from enemies, whether we like it or not. Maybe he disturbs you, doesn’t matter. But we experience that flavour. In life, we should experience every flavour. So it’s not just a man and a woman relationship.
Of course, inspiration happens in the youth when a boy meets a girl and that’s an amazing feeling. Experience it, that’s good. That’s the time to experience it. You can’t experience that at 60. (laughs) Each time, each location, each space in time, we have different sets of experiences, and when we put it all together, we call it life. If you want a life well-lived, you have to live in the time appropriate for you in the appropriate way. I never call anything good or bad. I never judge. But one thing I tell you, never involve yourself in cheating, stealing or betraying. It is important especially, to never betray trust because that is our integrity. If we really want to be good, powerful human beings, no betrayal, no cheating, no stealing, no lying, so that you are you’re expressing yourself powerfully in this world. We have every right to do that. And we must.
Transcribed by Shyama Jeyaseelan
Proofread by Vidya Rajagopalan
For more information about Mohanji, please visit Mohanji.org
Thus Spake Mohanji 