Author: Katyayani Chowdhry
Read the original interview in the Awakening Times magazine here.
Why should an ordinary human being, struggling with mundane life be attracted to “spirituality”? How can it help? To cut through directly, can spirituality make one rich? How? Because only if one has the luxury of material abundance can one look beyond the mundane…
Mohanji: Why should one go to spirituality? The answer is – Because one is not “going” to spirituality. Spirit is part of you. Spirit is running your body, mind, intellect, ego and all the other aspects. So, at a certain point in time you will have to connect to the spirit. Spirit has dimensions- waking state, dream state, deep sleep state- whatever you see outside is not yours. You can talk about any material, any person, any position, you can talk about anything in the outside world- it is not yours, and it’s only temporary. You are custodian of that for some time, after that it goes away. What is inside, permanently, continuously, guiding and delivering experiences which is part of life-that is spirit. You will get to know that at some point of time in life. It’s not that we choose – “Ok now we have had enough of the external world, we go inside”. It is not like that. It is something which is already sitting in you and you are reminded about it. You become reminded of the real factor, the real aspect of you. You understand that all these illusions apart, I am a real being, I am the Spirit inside that has activated the mind, body, intellect and ego- that is exactly what I am and that connection, the deepening of that connection is the deepening of spirituality. This is what Spirituality is.
It is not what you think is an activity. You can use any activity to reach that experience of Spirit. You can use kriyas, you can use yoga asanas, you can use meditations, contemplations. You can take any path, any deity, any worship, hatha yoga, dhyana yoga, karma yoga– but at the end of the day you are only using them as vehicles to reach a state where you are one with the spirit. So, Spirituality is You. Everybody is equal here- nobody has higher spirituality or lower spirituality- there is higher connectivity and lower connectivity. When I say higher connectivity, that means more connectivity with Spirit, lower connectivity means more with the external world. Apart from that, there is no one higher or no one lower. Some people who are fully connected to the Spirit- we call them MASTERS.
We get attracted to them because they don’t need anything from the external world, they are fully connected to their inside world and they are very happy and contented, because inside world is permanent, outside world is not permanent. People are generally emotional, in the emotional state, in the thought state- ideas change, ideals change, materials outside change- everything changes, so we are fed up of these changes after a while. None of these things are permanent, not even this body- it is not permanent.
While you are existing, while you have this incarnation, use this incarnation to connect to yourself- and reach the highest state you can as an individual and that is obviously the spirit state. You establish in the Spirit state- that is the Shakti-state also, self-realisation state and also that is a permanent state. It has its own permanence and then you reach the state of soul- the Shiva-state- where everything becomes you. You have nothing else to look at. What you look outside is you, all the emotions outside is you, all the people outside are you, everything is you. So, that state, it is a natural progression for every individual, it is not like at one point you stop the other and choose this, it doesn’t work that way. You are always flowing, reaching a state where nothing else matters- only the Spirit matters. This is how it happens.
How can people get unstuck in life? There are karmic patterns that keep repeating cyclically in many cases, and people are so stuck that even though they want to, they can’t get out of their situations and just can’t seem to move on, even though they have the awareness to see that it is a repetitive pattern: be it financially, maritally, socially, health wise…etc. Is there a mantra to get unstuck and move on in life? I don’t mean it in the context of escapism, but in being aware that it is some sort of karma- but you still want to move out of it, without playing the blame game.
Mohanji: Whenever we are stuck with something, it means that we are succumbing to our dependencies and expectations. Expectations and tendencies are the cause for getting stuck at every level. Mostly expectations are controlled by certain desires and wrong understandings as well. So, if it is a situation or a person or a place or anything of this aspect including things like marriage, a particular position in the society, wealth, assets- all those things, they are all connected to certain concepts which we are digesting or we have acquired. It is not yours, you have collected it from the society and society tells that you should get married, society tells you should have children, society demands quite a lot of things- because society cannot see the Karma, society is two dimensional. Society does not understand Karma at all. Why a certain person behaves in a certain way- the society cannot understand. We acquire it and try to practise it. So, every dependency causes pain.
Whenever you are dependent on something external, that causes pain. You are free by birth. Freedom is your birth right and freedom is your nature. So, any binding, even if it is small or big- it leaves pain, it gives pain. This is one aspect. And expectations about individual relationships- that causes pain. These are the two things that we say we are stuck in existence. The remedy, the way to get out is – perfect awareness.
First and foremost, understand that you are a Karmic-being. In that situation, because your Karmic structure chose that, your Karmic configuration created that situation for you. You may like it or you may not like it, that’s different- it depends on this life and this existence. Now you have a choice – that you become aware and you accept, you allow it to happen. Then you choose no suffering. This whole situation will dilute. The mantra to get unstuck is awareness. Practise awareness. Practising awareness means that you are aware that you are existing, that you are going through a situation and this awareness should be combined with non-resistance. No resistance at all. Total acceptance- ok, this is my situation, I accept it, be very cool about it and you handle it. Only when you resist it becomes painful. Whenever you resist any situation it becomes painful and that memory goes deeper. So, before something becomes a pattern- there is a deep memory connected to it. A memory which is very deep becomes a pattern.
A memory which is very deep always reminds you that it exists- just like a big tree is more visible than the small bushes or shrubs or grass- like that you need to understand that everything is created by you in this way. May be it was a small incident that left a memory, then similar incidents add up to that memory, this memory becomes much deeper and more solid, and after a while it becomes a pattern. This memory creates its’ own existence. Something which is already in the ground – it grows and it creates a pattern and life becomes repetitive. Something you think you are stuck with- there is always a deeper impression which is keeping you there. So it is important that you need to dilute this impression.
Now going to the system, how it operates- the impressions that you are sending out of residual memory- stays waiting for the right position and right time to materialize into a form, into an activity, an experience- so when it really matures, when the environment is right for it to express itself, that’s the time when you are resisting again. When you are resisting, it is not going away, it’s staying back. Each time you resist any situation, that goes back into the mind and again it comes out, so that eventually becomes a pattern. Each time you put anything back into the line again, it goes and comes back again. So every situation you push away becomes your reality sooner or later on a much more permanent level- that’s what you call the successes and failures of life, but if you accept every situation: alright, this is happening, I have to handle it- and you are not even actually handling it! Like Bhagawan Krishna says- Surrender all your activities and the results of it to me and I will release you from it. When you are surrendering all your activities and all results- and you are just existing as a person completely occupied in Self, then all these things will diminish after a while because once they can’t manifest in you with full intensity, then they lose importance.
Whatever loses importance in life drops off and whatever drops off is gone forever. Then you do not even have a memory. You may have a faint memory that something like that may have happened in past lives. It drops off and finally you become empty- when you become empty, you become complete by the divine spirit. So you can definitely get out of this experience with one mantra- PERFECT AWARENESS- that you exist and only you exist. Everything you are experiencing – you have collected at some point in time. Whatever is outside of you are only triggers of what lies inside you. Everything outside remains outside as long as you don’t take it inside- that’s not yours and you are completely free from it. If you have clear awareness that you are a complete being experiencing something called life with this incarnation, then you will be free from it easily. It is an attitudinal thing.
If you are suffering, resisting or complaining, you are actually reinforcing. Likewise if you are criticizing, judging, scandalizing, taking revenge etc- the poison sits in you more than in other people. So when you mislead somebody, or when you criticize somebody, you are actually criticizing yourself, because you are creating all those energies inside and it flows out. Then what happens is that you as a source get more contaminated than the world outside. So it is always the case that where ever there is suffering, where ever there is a situation of pain- look at the source- where is it coming from? You will see a memory which you have stored, which is a part of your pending disorder pattern; if order is happiness then disorder is sadness. So this disorder pattern is created. In the absolute sense there is no disorder, it’s all experience and you are aware that this is all just experience and you have nothing to do with it, it is just happening through you- then you will survive- you will be free from it eventually.
When people pray to energies in a temple or a church or a mosque…, is Anyone actually listening? If no, why did prayer develop, because it seems to have been embedded in civilization since the beginning of it? If yes, how do we pray, especially if you need help? What is the most efficient way to pray so that Someone answers? Or do we not pray at all?
Mohanji: Human beings understood that there are higher powers than themselves, so they created systems over a period of time that they could ask somebody to help them. There are numerous beings that are very benevolent in the created universe. There is a created universe and there is an uncreated universe; the uncreated universe is much more than the created universe. So if you feel and you understand that the uncreated universe created the created universe which is part of our existence as well as yourself and the universe which is tangible, then there is a creator who is the unmanifested and uncreated. Thus people tend to connect to the unmanifested as the source and that is where the prayers developed from.
Eventually the saints and the seers understood that to reach the uncreated universe you can’t go outside to reach – you have to go inside and reach. So they developed systems where they withdrew themselves from the senses, they withdrew the mind into themselves, then they stabilised the mind into the soul- which is the spirit- and they stabilised the intellect into the spirit, ego into the spirit- and they completely withdrew themselves into silence and connected to the source which is the actual source particle within them- which we call soul; then the whole connection started with the outside universe, because when you connect to the source inside- you connect to the actual source outside. Then they realised that there is no inside or outside because this whole thing that we consider as incarnation is just an illusion, meaning it’s just temporary. Nothing tangible is an illusion- it is a temporary thing. When they realised this connection to the inside, they became self-conscious or they became aware of the Self, then they became aware of the cosmic self. So this is the way.
In our case when the mind is praying to something outside that is mostly connected to insecurity or connected to some needs- that’s a very fragile way of praying and that is rooted in
non-understanding. There is no master or teacher sitting in the outside world, as a being who is granting wishes and boons like that. In the structure of Sanatana Dharma, we have deities- deities are all connected to ideas. We have various types of deities- 33 crore deities- meaning that there are 330 million dimensions of the Supreme Consciousness, which is pure energy. The great Masters codified or gave a structure to the 330 million dimensions possible of the Supreme Consciousness and they have given it a name and a form corresponding to their ideal or what they are representing. They created yantras or sacred geometry structures. They created mantras to activate or maintain them. These great Masters understood them and made them tangible for the people to worship. When you worship them you actually worship that aspect within you.
As I said in the beginning, the people who recognized that the whole creation and the creator sits inside them- they started connecting within, withdrawing the senses, withdrawing the mind from the senses and the intellect and Ego from the outside world and bringing it inside and then they started actualizing it. They realized that there are numerous dimensions of the creator, and each creator will create a different creation based on its dimension. So you are also one force- you created yourself and you have power to create new existence, so you are Shakti. In the same way, every being is shakti, every being is a creator and the creator has big force. That possibility is segregated and classified in 330 million forms by great Masters and they said, “Look here, all these dimensions are real to you and are inside you. But you connect to what suits you because you will naturally connect to something which connects you to the state that is close to your state”. What suits you is what you can digest and like a food you consume. So you will connect to a God or a Deity that’s natural to you, that is why in the Sanatan Dharma tradition, everything is a deity – a tree is a deity, a plant is a deity, because every being which has the power to create his own clan or a class or his own is a deity, because he is a creator. So, a human being is also a creator.
The soul-aspect has the power to create more bodies, so naturally we have the power and the presence and the dimension of the creator. Hence, we respect everybody as ourselves, as a potential creator. That is why we do Namaste- that is, we respect the creatorship in you and I respect you as a creator. So when you pray to something outside, what you pray to and which level you pray to – this is very important to understand. The highest and the best prayer is the prayer of Gratitude. First of all, you should be accepting of whatsoever is happening in you, your body, your mind, your intellect, your ego, your positioning, your possessions, your upbringing, your lineage, your family, your parents- then there is a larger flow of life that made this possible. There is a larger pattern, there is a larger configuration, so first you respect that and it will lead you to contentment: “I am happy with what I am, I am happy with this situation, I am happy with this incarnation.” At that level, the only prayer that is possible is gratitude- I am grateful, for all the pain and the pleasures of life are a part of it.
There is nothing good or nothing bad in life. We say something is very bad only because you did not accept it as that thing- that’s all. You cannot talk about any aspect of existence as good or bad, you can’t blame somebody, because everybody exists in their own karma. They are all travelling in their path, and what can you call as right or wrong, it is very difficult to say. I always say that violence is wrong- violence is bad because it breeds more violence. So when more violence happens, then emotions are running and you are connecting to it and your affinity with yourself reduces, that is why I say violence is not good. If you get love, you can accept, you can literally embrace it as it comes, then your connectivity inside is stable. That is more relevant and effective to connect to the larger aspect of existence. That is why I always say connect to yourself and do not be violent in thought, word and action. Accept and move forward. I am not saying be a doormat and suffer, what I am saying is accept everything with awareness and know that- this has come to me, there is a reason for this happening to me; these people have come to me, they are sent- otherwise they wouldn’t have reached me. There is a larger configuration, there is a larger perspective- everything that has happened in your life has a purpose, you just accept the purpose. Some of them are painful, some of them are pleasant –“Oh I didn’t expect this person to behave like this!”, or, “Oh I expected this person to behave like this!” – all these things are in the mind. So you take your mind off and give an expression of gratitude and life will clear up spontaneously.
People think that there is some God or someone outside listening to your prayers. When you go and see a deity, that deity belongs to you- he is a part of you- you are actually accepting that aspect of you and then you are praying to that aspect of you within you. That is why we close our eyes and pray, we don’t open our eyes and pray. Why? Because spontaneously we know that when we are praying, we are praying inside and not outside. When you open your eyes you are looking outside. When you look outside- what you see are images, forms, and you get diluted – that that is what is going to grant you your wishes- it is not so.You are actually unlocking yourself to receive it,that is when you are actually getting the results. So when you pray to something outside and you close your eyes and say- God please do this for me, or, Please help me, so inside you are asking for the blockage to be removed. And who is removing it? You are actually allowing it to be removed, so it is getting removed. Not that God is sitting outside and says- Ok now I remove this thing from you!
It is not so. It is actually internally that you are doing it. Everything is inside- understand- the world outside has no existence apart from you. When you look at the world outside, the world exists, when you don’t look at the world outside it doesn’t exist. So everything is inside, all the creations are inside, that’s why great Masters created 330 million dimensions of the Supreme Consciousness and said now you connect to anything you like. But they are not insisting that you connect to anything, that freedom is there. If you are only looking at one dimension, then you do not even understand Creation. Look at an average human existence – you are a father, you are a son, you are a spouse, you are an employee, employer, a pedestrian, you are a consumer- you have numerous roles in everyday life. So its not one dimension that you live all the time. Just like that, deities and gods have numerous dimensions- that you understand and connect to, and then you can be in tune with creation.
So prayers are good, but prayers with the awareness that- they are to ourselves, it is all inside; and deities outside are our own representations. There are deities who are angry deities, there are deities who are loving deities, there are deities who will give you wealth-(if you pray to them you will become rich- they are to provide wealth), there are deities to provide success, there are deities to remove blockages. All these deities are dimensions of you and when you pray to them you are actually giving commands, intrusion into yourself, or your affirmations to yourself that- let the blockage towards this be cleared and let me be successful– this is how it works.
Then how do gurus work differently? Gurus are people who have actualized themselves. When you connect to the energy of the Master, then like a mirror it reflects into them and comes out. They are very similar to deities but Gurus work differently. Gurus with their accumulated grace factor are able to change things in their outside world.
That is because they have collected something. Like, see you have earned a million dollars, so you can spend a million dollars. If you have not earned a million dollars then you cannot spend it. So through good work, activities, prayers and meditations, chanting and so many different things that gave them strength and power, they have collected them over life times and that bank balance is what they are using for your benefit. So that is the way that Guru sometimes changes your destiny- because they have already earned that bank balance and using that bank balance they can help you.
They will help you provided you deserve the help. It’s not like they like you, they look at your face and they like you and they help you. It does not happen like that, eligibility is a very important thing- eligibility means purity of thought, purity of word, purity of action- that’s the main thing, the purpose should be pure. If the purpose is to harm somebody or hurt somebody or possess somebody or control somebody- Gurus may not be interested to help you, because that may not be the cause that they stand for. Sanatan Dharma does not support wrong action- which means actions that control people, manipulate people, or any of those actions that are not good for society. Sanatan Dharma stays with the dharmic people- dharmic people are enforced by Sanatan Dharma; and the Masters that enforce the Sanatan Dharma will only help those people who are actually doing something for the world.
You cannot even imagine the quantum of that help – it ‘ll be like a huge force of a million horsepower or a billion horse power or something like that, provided that you are doing it for the sake of the larger good of the world. So this is also one suggestion that if you want to get out of your small states of fears and phobias and binding- you have to get into the larger worldview and get into larger action, so that spontaneously larger forces come through you and work through you and that automatically dilutes and dissolves these smaller aspects of fears, phobias and bindings.
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